Make bears blind so I can hunt them with a battletank.

[Raketefrau]

IMHO, someone ratting should have to make a mistake to get popped by a roaming gang. There's a protocol that can be followed to stay alive, but if you fuck it up, you die.

I agree that currently the mistake has to be "walking away from the computer while ratting," and it should be something more substantial than that, but I totally disagree that cloakers shouldn't show up in local, or that a quick inty should be able to jump into a system and have a >10% chance of snagging a ratter who is alert and paying attention.

[Jafit]

CCP should watch some old Star Trep Next Generation, i would love some system where you only got a blip on your long-range scanners, not knowing who or what is in the same solar system as you are. Making it necessary to hail them, and see if they answer (if friendly, or pretending to be) or just flying towards you (if hostile, or just mute) so you gotta make some decisions about how to deal with this intrusion, or not.

Something like that would be more fun than what we have.

Passive sensors: Alert you to certain events that happen in the solar system. What these events are, the distance at which you detect them could depend on your sensor's setup (either a secondary interface, skills, or ship modules could affect your sensors).

Events that you detect could include gate activation, incoming or outgoing jumps, weapons fire, ships entering or leaving warp, probes scanning.

Events that occur beyond your sensor's optimal range could still show up but just as blips with less or no information than a contact in your optimal range. The visibility of an event could also depend on its scale, so if you have 1 gate activation on the other side of a 100AU system it won't show up as anything but a very faint blip, if at all. If however you have 40 gate activations it'll light up for everyone to see. I also thought weapons fire would be a good thing to see as it makes ratters more visible.

Active sensors: Could behave a bit like d-scan where you point it at something and press a button to get a clear reading on something too far away for your passive sensors to see, but using an active sensor ping makes you highly visible on everyone else's passive sensors.

Certain celestial bodies could also have an effect on the visibility of certain events. Maybe if you're near a gas giant it masks your warp signature, or maybe if you're in an asteroid belt it'll make weapon fire less visible.

Anyway that's what I'd suggest, however I recognise that it might be too much of a departure from what we're used to. I'm also not sure about whether it's technically feasible.

[Zagdul]

God forbid that ratting in 0.0 should require teamwork.

It shouldn't REQUIRE teamwork.

It should allow teamwork and if necessary reward it.

[Viribus]

From the looks of it the shit he has fit was all drops from his ratting so it was free anyway

I'm fitting up a vindicator similarly

[Vindicator, serpentis roleplay]Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Corelum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corelum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Core A-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Damage Control II


Shadow Serpentis Stasis Webifier
Core A-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25
Shadow Serpentis Warp Scrambler


Shadow Serpentis Ion Blaster Cannon, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Shadow Serpentis Ion Blaster Cannon, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Shadow Serpentis Ion Blaster Cannon, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Shadow Serpentis Ion Blaster Cannon, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Shadow Serpentis Ion Blaster Cannon, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Shadow Serpentis Ion Blaster Cannon, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Shadow Serpentis Ion Blaster Cannon, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Shadow Serpentis Ion Blaster Cannon, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L


Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Nanobot Accelerator I

[Securitas]

I like the idea of shifting intelligence gathering from an arbitrary channel to ship-based. D-scan could be the "active" counterpart of a somewhat less powerful but automatic passive system as mentioned above. Intelligence would also focus on proximity in a system, rather than mere presence.
I think Local is still important for finding fights, so perhaps it could show the number of people in system, but not who they are.

[Hilmar Keller]

I agree that something should be done with D-Scan - spamming that button has probably caused carpal tunnel in more than one poor W-Space nerd. But we also don't need to reinvent the wheel in null-sec. With some minor tweaking, local can work for everybody involved.

[Marlona Sky [banned]]

I think Local is still important for finding fights, so perhaps it could show the number of people in system, but not who they are.

That might work in busy systems where numbers are expected to be constantly fluctuating and high so popping in and finding a target is possible. It would not work elsewhere because it is far easier to avoid a fight than to find a fight as is or if it only shows the number of players in the system. Soon as the number changes from 1 to 2, they will warp off to safety every time. Just remove it already or make it like unknown space so you can still smack talk after the fight.

[tgr]

That might work in busy systems where numbers are expected to be constantly fluctuating and high so popping in and finding a target is possible. It would not work elsewhere because it is far easier to avoid a fight than to find a fight as is or if it only shows the number of players in the system. Soon as the number changes from 1 to 2, they will warp off to safety every time. Just remove it already or make it like unknown space so you can still smack talk after the fight.

I take it you'll be advocating a severe bump in rewards in nullsec and a complete removal of L4s in hisec, then?

[Marlona Sky [banned]]

I take it you'll be advocating a severe bump in rewards in nullsec and a complete removal of L4s in hisec, then?

I don't think level 4s should be moved out of high sec. I believe they should be made more difficult requiring more than a lone ship to complete, but taking just as long to complete as they do now. Thus effectively nerfing the ISK per person. Also the removal or change to unknown local should be for all space, including high sec.

In no way should it stop there. The directional scanner needs a total and complete overhaul. One where getting carpel tunnel is not required and being a scout is a real role again. Not some NPC alt in a shuttle spamming a button gathering virtually all the intel you need.

Whatever it is it should not feel like a pain in the ass, but should require effort that matches the intel your gathering.

[ein]

I don't think level 4s should be moved out of high sec. I believe they should be made more difficult requiring more than a lone ship to complete, but taking just as long to complete as they do now. Thus effectively nerfing the ISK per person. Also the removal or change to unknown local should be for all space, including high sec.

That's all complete fantasy shit though because there's no way CCP is going to piss off half their players by changing high sec so it's harder to earn less money.

There's no reason not to try simpler, less drastic measures like the gate cloak thing to see if it works before messing around with the ship scanner and other complicated things like that.

[Jafit]

I don't think level 4s should be moved out of high sec. I believe they should be made more difficult requiring more than a lone ship to complete, but taking just as long to complete as they do now. Thus effectively nerfing the ISK per person. Also the removal or change to unknown local should be for all space, including high sec.

I think that PvE is generally dumb in the way it forces you to set up your ship completely differently to how you would set it up for PvP. Ratters dock the fuck up at the first sign of danger because they know full well that their ship will be shredded by practically anything flown by a player. It's the only sensible thing to do, PvP ships are designed to hold and kill one target as fast as possible, whereas a PvE ship is set up to tank a large number of rats with known damage profiles while picking them off one at a time.

I think it'd be interesting if there were another kind of PvE where the rats were as close to human players as possible, completely unpredictable, nothing on eve-survival to help you decide what hardeners you should fit before you undock. Make them hard and aggressive with a chance to actually kill a player. Give them a sense of self preservation as well so that they warp off when they realize they're losing, so you need to fit for tackle to get the rewards.

This way you can go out in your PvP-capable ship to hunt these rats and you can engage PvP targets of opportunity you find along the way. If a neutral player does enter local while you're ratting this way, well you're already committed to an engagement and probably disrupted/scrammed as well, so the newcomer would have time to find you and join in (bearing in mind that the rat would be a threat to the newcomer too)

I'd like for that form of PvE to be used in some highsec missions as well, so maybe more of the newbies in this game would get what kind of game Eve is and wouldn't grow up into such massive pampered self-entitled risk-averse publords

[Hilmar Keller]

Since local is already effectively a system-wide D-scan which gives you the most basic information available (how many people are in system and their names), how does updating D-scan to do this while removing local help anything? The only difference I see is that I won't immediately know whether a friend or foe is entering and so I'd end up warping off to safes in response to friendlies 90% of the time. It would just make mining/ratting more frustrating, not less safe.

[tgr]

I don't think level 4s should be moved out of high sec. I believe they should be made more difficult requiring more than a lone ship to complete, but taking just as long to complete as they do now. Thus effectively nerfing the ISK per person. Also the removal or change to unknown local should be for all space, including high sec.

So, incursions?

Since local is already effectively a system-wide D-scan which gives you the most basic information available (how many people are in system and their names), how does updating D-scan to do this while removing local help anything? The only difference I see is that I won't immediately know whether a friend or foe is entering and so I'd end up warping off to safes in response to friendlies 90% of the time. It would just make mining/ratting more frustrating, not less safe.

Sounds like it'd end up as a distance-limited d-scan, which means you'll end up having f.ex 5-10 seconds randomly chosen out of 5 hours of titillating mining/ratting/anoming to notice someone's in warp to you or to some anom/POS/POCO/moon close to you; you don't know.

And it'd probably make cloaked ships not show up on this scan either.

[Hilmar Keller]

So it effectively removes cloakies from both local and scans, making cloakyfagging the norm rather than one in a few effective ways to catch ratters.

You know, if I'm about to get raped by 30 SBs, I'd like to know some time before they decloak. Just so that I can prepare my anus.

[Marlona Sky [banned]]

That's all complete fantasy shit though because there's no way CCP is going to piss off half their players by changing high sec so it's harder to earn less money.

There's no reason not to try simpler, less drastic measures like the gate cloak thing to see if it works before messing around with the ship scanner and other complicated things like that.

There is ton CCP can do to make missions fun and not so predictable. Yes it would piss off the bots and players with no soul at all. But who gives a fuck about them.

Yes I agree missions should start bridging the gap between pvp fits and pve fits. And for fucks sake I hate how everything in this game, especially true for pve, is documented. Introduce more random events.

[Marlona Sky [banned]]

So, incursions?

Something like that. But even incursions are not even random, the actual sites that is. Everything is completely documented and only the sites that offer the best ISK/hour are fought over. Hell not even fought over, but more resembles a race to see who can complete the site first.

Go for the low hanging fruit now and strive for the 'fantacy' as some of you call it.

[Hilmar Keller]

What is this 'fantacy' you speak of

[Stronke]

ISK

[Grath]

I actually really liked Incursion running because to really hum and be an optimal team that pulled the most money, you couldn't half ass it, you had to pay attention, and paying attention was really easy to do for huge blocks of time, whereas Anom running i can't do for more than 2 hours

[Velonad]

Despite what most of you nerds think, some of us actually like to play this game for the teamwork involved.

To clear some misconceptions on where I actually stand in this discussion, I'd like to clarify that the original two posts were intended to gauge interest and provoke a reaction to what had pretty much just crossed my mind at the time. I'm not suggesting that cloakies be removed from local as long as they cloak as a matter of course, it's more of a "what do you guys think?".

I think it would be awesome if you could still make a quite decent amount of ISK from solo ratting/anom pelxing, etc...But I also think that ratting as it is is pretty retarded as it is now. It's too easy and provides no challenge to an intelligent player. If you shifted focus towards increasing returns for being forced to work as a team with other players up towards certain limits, while increasing the challenge exponentially.

By challenge I mean more scrambling/ewar rats and better AI on rats as the first things that come to my mind, maybe also randomize missions/plexes/anoms more.

At the same time, I think that the way local and dscan works right now is one of the many causes of death of small scale warfare. As many have pointed out it's almost impossible to die as a ratter unless you leave your PC. Leaving new arrivals out of local when still cloaked from jump in seems like a reasonable change to make it at least somewhat easier to find people without making your presence known immidiatly.

[tgr]

Ewar rats don't make for a better ratting experience, it just makes the whole deal take longer.

[Hilmar Keller]

Despite what most of you nerds think, some of us actually like to play this game for the teamwork involved.

Tell me more about your Massively Multiplayer Online Spaceship Cooperative Gameplay Experience.

To clear some misconceptions on where I actually stand in this discussion, I'd like to clarify that the original two posts were intended to gauge interest and provoke a reaction to what had pretty much just crossed my mind at the time. I'm not suggesting that cloakies be removed from local as long as they cloak as a matter of course, it's more of a "what do you guys think?".

We think it's pants-on-head retarded. There's your reaction.

I think it would be awesome if you could still make a quite decent amount of ISK from solo ratting/anom pelxing, etc...But I also think that ratting as it is is pretty retarded as it is now. It's too easy and provides no challenge to an intelligent player. If you shifted focus towards increasing returns for being forced to work as a team with other players up towards certain limits, while increasing the challenge exponentially.

Yeah, or CCP could fix systems that actually need fixing and acknowledge that PVE is always going to be a grind no matter how many bells and whistles you attach to it.

By challenge I mean more scrambling/ewar rats and better AI on rats as the first things that come to my mind, maybe also randomize missions/plexes/anoms more.

At the same time, I think that the way local and dscan works right now is one of the many causes of death of small scale warfare. As many have pointed out it's almost impossible to die as a ratter unless you leave your PC. Leaving new arrivals out of local when still cloaked from jump in seems like a reasonable change to make it at least somewhat easier to find people without making your presence known immidiatly.

I don't think we need to make plexes/anoms/belts more difficult to make ratters possible to kill. We're trying to increase the risk while not totally eliminating permanent 0.0 populations.

[Marlona Sky [banned]]

I don't think we need to make plexes/anoms/belts more difficult to make ratters possible to kill. We're trying to increase the risk while not totally eliminating permanent 0.0 populations.

And that is the problem. You can't add any risk to null/low sec pve without the player packing bags to go farm level 4s in high sec. There needs to be massive changes so when there is real risk when doing pve in null the same player will stay because the juice is worth the squeeze.

Make no mistake, there still will be pussies playing this game that will go out of their way to avoid risk at all cost. Don't worry about keeping them happy.

[Lucas Quaan]

I think this was about where I chimed in last time saying that local is broken as an intel tool not because of ratters, but because of pvp:

No one saw the covert cyno or a single ship on scan, but everyone knows that a group of bombers just bridged in so be careful.
I can't dock in their station, but -A- are probably forming a fleet because 100+ ppl just appeared in local.
The gate flashed and local went up by 25. We had no scouts on the other side, but warp off because that's more than we can take.

Space is big and dark. Bring back uncertainty.

[tgr]

And that is the problem. You can't add any risk to null/low sec pve without the player packing bags to go farm level 4s in high sec. There needs to be massive changes so when there is real risk when doing pve in null the same player will stay because the juice is worth the squeeze.

Make no mistake, there still will be pussies playing this game that will go out of their way to avoid risk at all cost. Don't worry about keeping them happy.

And the problem with making the juice worth the squeeze, is that L4s (and now FW farmville) is making it very, very hard to actually increase the rewards outside of those systems to the point where people actually think it is worth it.

[Slycat]

What about an Everquesty (RZ server) type model ?

Occasional random spawns that are broadcast to all and result in a PVP battle to gain control of the site which then requires PVE team to run for good PVE reward (which once won can't be interrupted by PVP for that instance)?

[tgr]

Dungeons in spaaaaaceeee

[Stronke]

What? Dungeon Keeper In Space?

[Jafit]

What about an Everquesty (RZ server) type model ?

Occasional random spawns that are broadcast to all and result in a PVP battle to gain control of the site which then requires PVE team to run for good PVE reward (which once won can't be interrupted by PVP for that instance)?

I used to live in Catch with Huzzah Federation, every day we'd form up to fight over the 10/10 Sanshas complex that was in 4-0. Try to find people who could fly muninns to run the complex while everyone else camped the acceleration gate in their kitchen sink ships. Everyone on the gate got like a 12m share or something, dat isk per hour.

[Stenner]

What about an Everquesty (RZ server) type model ?

Occasional random spawns that are broadcast to all and result in a PVP battle to gain control of the site which then requires PVE team to run for good PVE reward (which once won can't be interrupted by PVP for that instance)?

Isn't that more or less how 0.0 incursions work? But almost noone bothers to run them, let alone fight over them?

[tgr]

Isn't that more or less how 0.0 incursions work? But almost noone bothers to run them, let alone fight over them?

Stab L4s in the face, and you'd see them be run again.

[true]

Another matter people tend to forget is that hunter not only catching/not catching ratter but also prevents ratting by mere presense thus defeating whole purpose of victim's business as long as he pleases.

So I call bullshit on all the " BAWWW I cannot affect a carebear" coming from several mediocre pvp'rs ITT

[Slycat]

Isn't that more or less how 0.0 incursions work? But almost noone bothers to run them, let alone fight over them?

Isn't that because reward for 0.0 incursions isn't much more than Empire space (like every other bit of PVE)

If the site was valuable enough for people to fight over it should be well.. actually valuable.

It wouldn't be worth my time forming a fleet and then running a PVE instance unless it was good isk. If I spent 2 hrs pving and 2 hrs PVEing I'd expect close to a cool bil for my efforts.


EDIT: This assumes I'm runnnig the risk of not winning the PVP and may actually lose my ship instead of making ISK and that the PVE content is difficult and requires a group of players.

[Grath]

And that is the problem. You can't add any risk to null/low sec pve without the player packing bags to go farm level 4s in high sec. There needs to be massive changes so when there is real risk when doing pve in null the same player will stay because the juice is worth the squeeze.

Make no mistake, there still will be pussies playing this game that will go out of their way to avoid risk at all cost. Don't worry about keeping them happy.

And the problem with making the juice worth the squeeze, is that L4s (and now FW farmville) is making it very, very hard to actually increase the rewards outside of those systems to the point where people actually think it is worth it.

IDK man, Lvl 4's have taken a kick in the nuts with the way the loot tables were altered and drops changed, now you're pretty much blitzing everything for LP and the intake isn't that high, granted its completely risk free but the income of just 0.0 anom running far outstrips the income of lvl 4 mission running, with a top flight kit that would match empire nearly doubling (in some cases coming close to tripling) the isk you can make in empire.

I don't see how you can really justify upping the income of 0.0 anom running and saying this needs to happen to make it more dangerous.

At some point you just have to bite the bullet, those that want to make that good money stay out here and those that are too risk averse will go back to empire, and later be replaced by those lured out by the promise of better income. Instead of coddling the risk averse we should be sending them to the place for risk averse people and letting natural greed repopulate the area with the people who don't care.

The money level is fine where it is and if you raise it much higher you're elbowing in on the Wormhole peoples money, I like the spread as it is now, a BC hull can make 100 mil an hour without much effort, try doing that in empire on a single account and well...

[n0th]

IDK man, Lvl 4's have taken a kick in the nuts with the way the loot tables were altered and drops changed, now you're pretty much blitzing everything for LP and the intake isn't that high, granted its completely risk free but the income of just 0.0 anom running far outstrips the income of lvl 4 mission running, with a top flight kit that would match empire nearly doubling (in some cases coming close to tripling) the isk you can make in empire.

Well i keep hearing about triple-digit million per hour when doing missions in empire; doesnt seem that unreasonable to me, since in a zero-risk enviroment it should be possible to minmax the shit out of blitzing setups.

[Marlona Sky [banned]]

Please enlighten me about this tripple digit mission running.

[tgr]

Well i keep hearing about triple-digit million per hour when doing missions in empire

Last I heard this claim, the word "incursion" was involved.

[Grath]

Well i keep hearing about triple-digit million per hour when doing missions in empire; doesnt seem that unreasonable to me, since in a zero-risk enviroment it should be possible to minmax the shit out of blitzing setups.

Well you see since they nerfed the fuck out of the drops and those are mostly worth shit, a lot of people swapped over to just blitzing, trying to score as much LP as possible in the shortest time possible, and even if you couple a noctis alt on a really pimp fit I'm pretty sure the empire peak for just lvl4's is around 70 million an hour, and to hit that peak you have to be fucking humming, not half assed afk mission running, and even then you're entirely dependent on what the market will bring you for your LP store goods.

If I recall, even empire Incursion runners have trouble breaking the 100million an hour mark, or if they do its just barely. 0.0 anom running is as far as i know, surpassed by exploration (which can give you shit drops as often as it gives you good drops, only the averages work out to make it worth pretty ok money) and Wormhole living if we're talking about shooting red crosses for your money.

[Zakhodit]

LVL4 missions in Empire are just fine the way they are. I.E. You make excatly as much isk as you should for your risk investment. Which, frankly is zero.

Unless you are retarded. Or, you run missions mostly afk while studying Russian and cooking dinner at the same time. That will get you killed.

The point is, if you don't like the money you make in high sec, GTFO of high sec. Making shit tons of isk should requrie that you pay attention and use some of the grey matter between your ears. Note, I said "should" there. Not that it always does.

As for making 0.0 "moar dangeroos", just stop. The only reason you'd be bitching about that is because you haven't figured out how the other guys are making so much money so your only hope to impose some kind of penalty on people who are smarter than you are.

I'm pretty sure the empire peak for just lvl4's is around 70 million an hour, and to hit that peak you have to be fucking humming, not half assed afk mission running,

This is accurate. And it's not worth the effort to grind them as fast as you can. If I'm going to put effort into it I can do much better than that out where carebears fear to tread.

[mort]

As for making 0.0 "moar dangeroos", just stop. The only reason you'd be bitching about that is because you haven't figured out how the other guys are making so much money so your only hope to impose some kind of penalty on people who are smarter than you are.

No. They are bitching because ratters have figured out how to mitigate the risks of ratting in 0.0 and can achieve higher rewards with no risk.

There are two kinds of risk in this case, intended risk and actual risk. CCP intends for 0.0 to be more 'risky' than high-sec -- by way of no concord, bubbles, gate camps, etc. The actual risk is actually closer to zero -- by way of blue lists, scouts, intel channels, paying attention to local, etc. It works out that when you compare actual risk/reward between high-sec and null-sec, it ends up working out better for null-sec. By making all these changes to local/dscan/etc, Grath/tgr/etc would like to increase the 'actual' risk by making it possible to kill ratters.

What no one seems to understand is that people naturally gravitate towards activities with the highest reward and no risk -- which is why everyone flocked to high sec incursions before the nerf and why everyone is farming FW now. If you start playing around with the actual risk using mechanics, the ratters will either adapt and bring the risk back down to zero, or abandon their activities and go mission in high-sec.

[Hilmar Keller]

Maybe L4s used to be able to make triple digits, but since FW is pushing faction mods/implants/skillbooks into the market like nuts, L4 LP is worth much less than it used to be. Why would you run L4s and buy Hookbills for 80k LP when you can buy them from the FW store for 20k LP - at tier 3?

[Raketefrau]

This is accurate. And it's not worth the effort to grind them as fast as you can. If I'm going to put effort into it I can do much better than that out where carebears fear to tread.

The grinding itself is unbearable (See what I did there?). I mean, even belt ratting, as repetitive as pretty much any other activity in Eve, is more entertaining than mission running. All the logistics of getting just the high-paying missions, maintaining the relationships, jumping all the fuck over empire, dealing with all the douchebags in the mission hubs....

I'd rather be sitting in a Raven in 0.0 watching local than spamming the "Clear All Content" button on local in Motsu.

If you want pvp content, buy and drop an SBU. Roaming for ratters is worse than missioning, it's one of thosse things that always *sounds* like it should be fun, but after 4 hours of jumping and warping and jumping and warping and jumping and warping for nothing, you realize it's just a stupid fucking thing to do.

I don't think the answer is "buff roaming for ratters," I think the answer is "find a better way to spend your time."

[Zakhodit]

You must spread rep around blah blah blah.

However, I do like what you did there.

[Grath]

If you want pvp content, buy and drop an SBU. Roaming for ratters is worse than missioning, it's one of thosse things that always *sounds* like it should be fun, but after 4 hours of jumping and warping and jumping and warping and jumping and warping for nothing, you realize it's just a stupid fucking thing to do.

I don't think the answer is "buff roaming for ratters," I think the answer is "find a better way to spend your time."

1) Finding PVP content shouldn't have to involve shooting a structure, dropping an SBU needs you to shoot a structure, if you dont, nobody forms up, why should a small gang spend 3 hours waiting for an SBU to online then have to shoot a trillion hit points just to MAYBE get a fight, it sounds counter productive to the ideal of fun.

2)A ratter who screams help is more likely to attract more people to fight than the 3 hour wait of an onlining SBU

3)You say "find a better wat to spend your time" and your suggestion is to shoot structures, do you frequently masturbate with a cheesgrater as well??

Some of the greatest fights ive ever had in this game have been over tackled ratters, 45 minute brawls that just last and last as the home alliances try to free the dying carrier/faction bs. In one we were actually passing ammo out because the gang had nearly ran out. That just doesn't happen because of SBU's, or really any other sov related thing, anytime you touch sov the reaction is always either "wait for the timer and gigantic fuck off gang" or some iteration of that.

[Marlona Sky [banned]]

If you think the only reason why some people want local gone is to kill a ratter then you are very wrong.

[Hilmar Keller]

Derp I have an argument but you don't get to hear it because my posting looks better that way.

[Viribus]

Maybe L4s used to be able to make triple digits, but since FW is pushing faction mods/implants/skillbooks into the market like nuts, L4 LP is worth much less than it used to be. Why would you run L4s and buy Hookbills for 80k LP when you can buy them from the FW store for 20k LP - at tier 3?

People don't buy ship BPCs at L4 LP stores, they buy 5-run module bpcs, which can push 2500k ISK/LP easily. Even half-assed blitzing can pull 120m isk/hr in a mach or vargur. It's basically the same ISK/hr as nullsec anom ratting, with the same risk involved (zero)

[tgr]

I don't see how you can really justify upping the income of 0.0 anom running and saying this needs to happen to make it more dangerous.

When, pray tell, have I said "0.0 anom running needs to be more profitable"? Because last I checked, what I said was that L4s etc set such a high standard for effortless/riskfree iskmaking that CCP would have to increase the anoms profitability too much. We saw what happened when they made anoms profitable enough that nullsec actually started becoming somewhat populated: CCP paniced and nerfed them into the ground a few months later, and the nullsec population drained away again.

Now, presumably, they're moving into FW farmville. vOv

If you think the only reason why some people want local gone is to kill a ratter then you are very wrong.

I've yet to see a single argument in favor of "remove local" which hasn't been literally a checklist of how to make it easier to kill ratters.

1) Finding PVP content shouldn't have to involve shooting a structure, dropping an SBU needs you to shoot a structure, if you dont, nobody forms up, why should a small gang spend 3 hours waiting for an SBU to online then have to shoot a trillion hit points just to MAYBE get a fight, it sounds counter productive to the ideal of fun.

Get more people into nullsec. Give more reasons for more people to be undocked in nullsec (outside of fleets). Voila.

2)A ratter who screams help is more likely to attract more people to fight than the 3 hour wait of an onlining SBU

Actually, in my experience he's more likely to be laughed at or met with "sigh another one?"

Some of the greatest fights ive ever had in this game have been over tackled ratters

If only there were some way to get more ratters to move to nullsec.

[Raketefrau]

If you think the only reason why some people want local gone is to kill a ratter then you are very wrong.

I guess I was misled by actually reading the topic.

[tgr]

I guess I was misled by actually reading the topic.

That topic was some mod's idea of a hilarious title, I claim no responsibility for it.