All they mean is Vinata is going to infract based on some retarded idea of his own on what does and does not physically or psychologically hurt you. If you don't agree with him that words can drive a knife into your gullet, then you're retarded (which is a perfectly decent thing to say and is not at all hurtful).Originally Posted by Grim
Oh, and all men are rapists... but that's not misandry because men are retarded and deverve the insults heaped on them, especially if they're *gasp* whitey.
"All men are rapists" - a sentiment which quite often appears on these forums.
Also an institutionalized form of discrimination against men which is not merely an opinion held by only a small section of society.
?"eve's a bad mmo, really bad, it's only saving grace is the people playing it, which i guess doesn't say great things about the people playing other MMOs"
Nerf grandiloquence.
You keep bringing up institutionalized -ism for your argument. If I called you a dago would that get me in trouble? It's offensive (to namby pamby types) and an ethnic slur but it's not at all institutional. You can find more institutional discrimination against whites and men these days than pretty much anyone else. Why else would a totally white chick feel the need to claim Cherokee blood to get into a prestigious school? It lowered the standards in her favor and blocked a more qualified applicant who was probably white.
My point is that you are being arbitrary in your choice of what is or isn't offensive and "hurtful" language. Basically, you're being a rash than being reflective. I don't generally disagree with what your about. I do have problems with its uneven application. You run the site, though and I'll have to abide by the rules or face the consequence of disobeying the fuhrer's restrictions.
Yeah but you're talking about racism, which is institutionalized, versus sexism against men (without the skin color specified) which is so obscure that a rule against it has no weight.
Gay bashing is a form of sexism and it's covered prominently in Vinata's new rules. I hear some gays are men.
The fact that there's a specific exception to sexism is, in itself, a display of sexism. Within the institution that Vinata runs, it's OK to call someone a rapist or breeder or make disparaging remarks about them for being men but call someone a "bitch" or a "cunt" and the hammer comes down.
As I said, it's his site to run how he wants to. I am simply expressing an opinion on his retarded decision to defend one form of -ism over another.
What's the rule on antisemitism? Are we still allowed to gas jews?
I know you're just playing devil's advocate here, but the weight of misogyny is much greater than misandry (to bring my point to light, notice how misandry doesn't even pass spell check).
Gay men aren't attacked for being male but for being homosexual. The characteristic that's being discrimated is not their gender but their sexual orientation. It's got nothing to do with misandry or sexism (and if you think that homosexual women wouldn't be discriminated then your only knowledge about that topic seems to come from watching too much porn).
Antisemitism (as factually incorrect the word itself is, since most semites are actually Muslims) is usually classed as a form of racism against Jews (from a primary ethnic, not religious, perspective), so it's already covered, and your question thus redundant.
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
Is if painful for you all have to twist yourselves into pretzels to rationalize your belief in "good" racism or "acceptable" discrimination?
Partly yes.
However I do work from an ideal of fundamental fairness. I don't use most of the vile terms that are subject to this ban. Most because it's Vinata's whim that decides and I may use something that hurts his feeling without meaning to. I'm offended by the widespread notion that the a political agreement between alliances is called a block on this forum but I won't ask for bans. If they were banned, there'd be a half dozen survivors.
You see, in a world where everyone thinks discrimination is bad yet everyone believes it's OK to discriminate against "the man" (for lack of a better term) then you can not ever reach that non discriminatory equilibrium. Replacing whites with blacks or men with women.
Back to the thread about the actual rules on the site. I've already stated that I understand I have to abide by (or face a spanking) the capricious edicts. I'm not likely to be affected since I mostly use simple cussing. I'm disturbed by the idea that several obviously educated people don't seem to be able to wrap their head around why being "good" bigots is better than having a completely neutral rule set.
Hey, I know that you're daft and a bit slow, but that doesn't make it my fault that you interpret me explaining you definitions of terms as "rationalisations". I'll rephrase my former post in simple factual bullet points, maybe that's easier for you to understand then:
* homophobia is not restricted to a specific gender
* homophobia is not the same as sexism
* anti-semitism is a specified term for racism against the ethnicity of Jews (the religious counterpart would be anti-Judaism)
* as a result, antisemitic remarks fall under the ruleset applied to racism as stated in the original post of this thread
(* most semites are actually Muslism which makes "antisemitism" a rather odd - if not outright infactual (not really a mystery either given its origin) - scientific term for racisms against "ethnic Jews" - this point however is neglectable and trivial at best in regards to the issue at hand)
Nothing else was stated in my former post. Mind telling me where I make any judgement of quality or acceptance on any form of discrimination?
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
Stop looking through your crack pipe and open your eyes to the broader argument. You keep focusing on stuff I said I don't exactly disagree with. The problem I have is the fact that some types of discriminatory behavior are being sanctioned. I'm sorry you can't understand something I've stated several times in pretty clear English.
Amusingly, I would have made my one snarky fat nerd pizza comment and ignored most of this had Vinata in practically the same breath didn't state that words hurt and that I was a retard. Seriously. That's fucking hilarious and worthy of a response.
Of course It's worth double mirth points that so many :words: were typed because I said that the standards should apply to all. All your arguments have really done is highlight your (pl) own unresolved bigotry.
I know why I called you a retard, but I'm interested to hear you clearly state why you think I called you a retard.
?"eve's a bad mmo, really bad, it's only saving grace is the people playing it, which i guess doesn't say great things about the people playing other MMOs"
I don't feel the need to open up the the broader argument, because I'm not getting involved in it. My first post towards you was a clarification that antisemitism is covered and that homophobia is not the same as sexism. Those are points relating to the ruleset and thus this thread. What followed was a post of yours, quoting me, and accusations of "rationaliz[ing] [my/our] belief in 'good' racism or 'acceptable' discrimination". That seemed to be a direct response to my post, hence you got yours.
The bottom line is that misandry is not an issue on this forum, thus there's no need to include it in the ruleset. I think there are about 5, maybe 10 registered female posters on this site that do post or have posted regularily on this site. Should we ever become overrun by extremely militant lesbians I'm sure misandry will be included.
Theoretic discussions about the "quality" and disparities of forms of discrimination are threads for IPEST.
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
You don't want to acknowledge a broader argument because it would undermine your intent to have a selective set of rules. Your reason specifically for not having the rules apply to chicks who want to diss men because it's not likely that will be an issue. So what? If you specifically exempt something like that, then you leave it open to abuse in the future.
But my commentary has never been specific to misandry (Someone else brought it up and I merely provided an example). Were I to say something with no intent to cause actual injury to women by saying "bitches be trippin" I could be slapped down for hurting the selfsame girls who don't actually exist on the internet anyway.
Gay men aren't attacked because they are gay (And they know how to color coordinate better than me). They are attacked because they are different. That applies to every one of the -isms you can name because somewhere there's someone who is willing to discriminate based on some arbitrary way you are not the same as them.
It really makes no difference. When you put up a set of rules about not using inflammatory words outside EOU THEN you start calling people retards it seems pretty stupid of you.
For the record, I said "words don't hurt unless you let them". I think it is obvious that I meant you can not be hurt by words unless you yourself give those words power. I assume you called me a retard (as you specifically referenced those words) because you think words DO hurt people. That we disagree means I'm a retard.
The fact is, were I inclined to boo hoo, your own words were potentially hurtful. I found that to be quite funny and decided it was worth a followup.
No, that's not why I referenced them and that's not why I called you a retard. I'll be sure to explicate next time.
?"eve's a bad mmo, really bad, it's only saving grace is the people playing it, which i guess doesn't say great things about the people playing other MMOs"
You may keep reinterpreting my statements to whichever outcome suits you best, it won't make them true however. It's also one reason I don't feel the need to be involved in your broader argument - which, by the way, does not mean the same as not acknowledging it. You probably should look up some of those words you are using.
Finally, the current gender ratio will most likely guarantee a self-regulating effect should the case of misandry, to stick with the example, ever occur. So, yes, it is not an issue currently in regards to moderation practices.
Should we add punishment for discriminating disabled people? Potentially. Although it's often hard to tell whether people are just plain dumb, home-schooled, or factually mentally retarded. That sure as hell would cause a lot of arbitrary reports and infractions.
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
I'm not twisting your words. You specifically said (and I don't disagree with this) that misandry would be limited by the lack of women in the forum. If anyone has been ignoring people it is you. This has never been about misandry or homophobia to me. If you can't see what I've been getting at there's no hope for you. I don't run this site; you can do what you please. That doesn't mean I can't call you a stupid pussy-fart for applying a moderating force so haphazardly.
That's it? I should probably refrain from responding to your queries.
I'm not ignoring you, but rather practicing your definition of tolerance, i.e. being apathetic to your bigger argument. That you can't accept me abstaining from you playing Don Quixote over nothing, while indeed putting words in my mouth, is eventually not my problem. I am not Vinata, and vice versa.
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
Fair enough. I made the mistake of thinking you were working with Vinata to put this together. I don't know that I would agree that you're being apathetic, though you do get points for having a good enough memory to hang that on me. If you simply didn't care, there wouldn't have been an exchange of so many words regarding your aversion to thinking of the bigger picture. That's just an opinion, though and it's possible I am wrong... but I'm not.
I don't really see any point in elaborating. You've shown either the inability, or unwillingness, to accurately interpret what other people are saying. So it'd just be some wasted words.
?"eve's a bad mmo, really bad, it's only saving grace is the people playing it, which i guess doesn't say great things about the people playing other MMOs"
In other words, I was right. You're such a girl.
/ducks
This thread is great. Thanks Vinata.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Misandry is just not a problem in society. Maybe in some areas, like nursing, midwifery, and other traditionally "female" jobs - but that's society (let's be honest, male dominated) as a whole that imposes stigma on men in those lines of work. You don't just see misandry in mainstream society or on the news like you do with racism, sexism, homophobia - and I've never seen a single case of misandry on this forum, ever.
I don't get what you're arguing for though - are you opposed to any sort of punitive measure for bigotry, are you saying it doesn't go far enough and that all forms of bigotry (including ones that aren't really a problem in this setting) should be punished, or are you just playing devil's advocate and trying to argue for the sake of it?
I'm saying either. bigotry is either accepted or not.
Personally I say not but I'm not normally one to tell someone what to think or say. I'm pretty comfortable with who I am not to worry overly much about someone elses attitudes or language.
Thread delivers. Would read again.
Jesus christ.
Spaceship friends don't let other spaceship friends madpost.
Bannable offence mate, blasphemy towards god is not apreciated around these here forums.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I am indeed apathetic to your agrument, however not apathetic to it being argued over here as it's not being aimed at the practical concerns of the rule per se (in my opinion). The philosophic theorising currently going on here is something for IPEST, as it lacks a practical tie to the current realities on this forum. Should the time arise to enact on certain other sorts of discrimination (i.e. misandry), you're welcome to address that point, preferably backed up with some factual content.Fair enough. I made the mistake of thinking you were working with Vinata to put this together. I don't know that I would agree that you're being apathetic, though you do get points for having a good enough memory to hang that on me. If you simply didn't care, there wouldn't have been an exchange of so many words regarding your aversion to thinking of the bigger picture. That's just an opinion, though and it's possible I am wrong... but I'm not.
If you believe that leaving out discrimination against disabled persons is unjustified because there are a lot of "retard"/"retarded" words going around, you might even have a fair point. But it doesn't warrant the mentioned "many words", to which you contributed not a trivial part to. Ironically, this contribution of yours proves that words are indeed valid tools to push someone's proverbial buttons. You've thus helped disproving your initial statement.
I'd assume that the majority of the currently active staff consists of godless heathens. So it's not the blasphemy that's bannable, but the advertising of non-existing idols.
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
He didn't insult the one true Lord Thulium so no harm done
I blame TV. I was raised on Rambo, Aliens, Predator, Hunter and Metallica.I am indeed apathetic to your agrument, however not apathetic to it being argued over here as it's not being aimed at the practical concerns of the rule per se (in my opinion). The philosophic theorising currently going on here is something for IPEST, as it lacks a practical tie to the current realities on this forum. Should the time arise to enact on certain other sorts of discrimination (i.e. misandry), you're welcome to address that point, preferably backed up with some factual content.
If you believe that leaving out discrimination against disabled persons is unjustified because there are a lot of "retard"/"retarded" words going around, you might even have a fair point. But it doesn't warrant the mentioned "many words", to which you contributed not a trivial part to. Ironically, this contribution of yours proves that words are indeed valid tools to push someone's proverbial buttons. You've thus helped disproving your initial statement.
I'd assume that the majority of the currently active staff consists of godless heathens. So it's not the blasphemy that's bannable, but the advertising of non-existing idols.
Now you mostly see fat pathetic door mats as male role models. I am fucking looking at you Raymond and Doug Heffernan.
Well that's about the truth of it. We disagree on this. I responded to the new rule almost as an afterthought and with what I thought was some humor. What made this hilarious and worthy of debate here (in my opinion) is that Vinata likes cutting hairs on what rules apply to the community and perhaps even only to certain individuals.
If Vinata wants to PMS about me pointing out his lack of balance then he has the right to be a sandy vagina about it. He can condescend all day long about my retardation getting in the way of understanding his perfect logic but he knows I understood perfectly his dislike for being questioned. I know it as well and for that I get to go to the gym all smug and shit.
Hardly. I said words can't "hurt" you unless you give them their power. Words are excellent tools and a requirement if we want to communicate intelligibly. If your buttons were pushed it's because you ceded power to me. I won't claim that I'm immune to it but I at least cognizant of where the power over me comes from.But it doesn't warrant the mentioned "many words", to which you contributed not a trivial part to. Ironically, this contribution of yours proves that words are indeed valid tools to push someone's proverbial buttons. You've thus helped disproving your initial statement.
Are you hurt? That certainly wasn't my intent.
You sure do like putting words in my mouth.If Vinata wants to PMS about me pointing out his lack of balance then he has the right to be a sandy vagina about it. He can condescend all day long about my retardation getting in the way of understanding his perfect logic but he knows I understood perfectly his dislike for being questioned. I know it as well and for that I get to go to the gym all smug and shit..
?"eve's a bad mmo, really bad, it's only saving grace is the people playing it, which i guess doesn't say great things about the people playing other MMOs"
And so it was that 3days before today Vinata instituted the "No Graths and No Freedom of Speech" rules.
Sorry, I guess that limits my posting to one section and one section only, as I reserve the right to be vocal in my dislike of gays, dykes, blacks, whites, yellows, mauves, greasers, wops, mics, pollocks, chinks, wet backs and fat faggots from the US and by extension their Canadian renters.
Eventually you'll just ban me because I can't not use the words and i'll find somewhere else to post about shit.
Really though, this is a faggot rule.
Ah an infraction, the slow death of liberty
still a faggot rule, dont care how many infractions you give out, but feel free to infact and ban all the people that add content since they're the ones that use this language the most, I'm sure that'll be good for your reader base.
Considering the title of this thread only references "guys" and not "gals", I recommend Vinata be infracted for violating the No Misogyny clause of the new rule.
They can still be potty mouths in EOU. Or they can deal with it and expand their vocabulary outside of EOU.
?"eve's a bad mmo, really bad, it's only saving grace is the people playing it, which i guess doesn't say great things about the people playing other MMOs"
My vocabulary works just fine
Hey please dont censor the name of my site on E-O but oh by the way either i got or somebody i know got a big black boyfriend with mommy issues so i now have a list of words you can't use on my site, its cool vinata, until the word police are done here then we'll just find somewhere else to post.
i just don't see the big deal
v0v if your vocabulary works fine use it. is it really so hard not to use homophobic/racist slurs outside EOU? it's not like anybody posts there anyway...
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
Its the principle of the censorship. Your choice is to suck a dick, my choice is to make fun of that choice, who gets to decide who's choice is more valid? Evidently Vinata does, and he's made his choice.
He's chosen to decide that certain :words: aren't acceptable to him for some arbitrary reason, that reason doesn't matter to some of us, we hope you enjoy posting somewhere that your words are monitored and controlled.
Why not just limit this to SDF and you can have your little Jade Constantine paradise in there, none of the other sections are active or eveo-related?
ps put vs back in charge he may be inactive but at least he isnt a little bitchmade faggot THAT IS ALSO INACTIVE
pps thats a bundle of sticks made by a female canine jfyi
You get paid more money for less effort and never wash dishes.
[ 2013.05.11 03:30:09 ] Jace Vorrin > THEMICK MCCOY SENDS HIS REGARDS :smug:
Says a man with the same slurs in his sig.
Like many other past heavyweights of K.com, he has sworn off everything EVE related so this is not a possibility.
E: The Clom expressed some interest in coming back, but he took one look at EOU and decided not to. Apparently the site's posting standards are so low as to be deplorable.
?"eve's a bad mmo, really bad, it's only saving grace is the people playing it, which i guess doesn't say great things about the people playing other MMOs"
In that case I nominate durrhurrdurr. He has unironically been a great mod imo and he still plays eveonline.
Well, duh.
lol
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
The term antisemite was coined back in Germany in the 1800s or some shit so Jew haters could have a more scientific sounding term than Judenhass(sp) which literally meant jew hatred.
No troll.
As a dude with a bit of Jewish background in my family(I do not practice Judaism myself, so technically I am not a Jew) I came into eve thinking that it was weird there were so many Jews playing the game....until I realized people just throw that term around real heavy as an insult in this MMO, more so than any game I have ever played before.
[ 2013.05.11 03:30:09 ] Jace Vorrin > THEMICK MCCOY SENDS HIS REGARDS :smug:
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