Delvolution

[Truth]

Its no secret that at the moment the SC has organizational issues, but that wasn't the point of my post. The point was to indicate that part of the reason people here have a generally good view of Nulli is because of war propaganda designed to weaken the Soco.

Main organizational issue SoCo has is Makalu and his merry band of ~goodfite~ roamers - -A- will always do what is best for -A- (and not risking t3 losses is best for -A- and for some reason they only fly t3) and fuck all else and that is no way to lead a block-level sov war,

if it was progod and not makalu calling the shots things would be different

[Sath]

Not that it matters much, but I think I'd might actually apply to join Nulli corps if they gave -A- the finger and started up a Coalition on their own/go to Solar Fleet, with the experiences learned from the CFC invasion and the -A-"leadership" in this war.

I'm wondering though, is it perhaps a problem of lack of time from Nulli alliance leaders? Summertime with holidays and whatnot, perhaps they are simply sticking to -A- atm because they don't have the leadership manpower to run a Coalition?

It's not a lack of time, nor is it a lack of willingness or (imo) talent. It's more that they simply cannot. They have no practical authority over -A-, RA, ROL, FAIL, or RDN. If any of those parties refuse to go along with a S2N-bred plan, then there's nothing Nulli can do about it. The only party with the combination of dignitas and material power in the south to armtwist other entities is Against ALL Authorities.

If S2N had gotten their way in operational-strategic planning, the main battlefield would not be Delve, I can say that much. Would we be doing any better? Fuck if I know.

[Kitty Vintner]

Warband has the right of it re: S2N-AAA relationships, which is to be expected. Regardless of who would be "better" at coordinating the SoCo's efforts during this current mess, the fact remains that -A- is, at least on paper, the clear leader amongst the southern powers in all the metrics that matter in modern coalition-level warfare.

[Kitty Vintner]

Sorry I fucked that quote up, let me fix that

We're fucked

[Centra]

Regardless of who would be "better" at coordinating the SoCo's efforts...

Just...wow.

You know there's a problem. You know what the problem is. You even know how to solve the problem.

But you continue to carry on because -A- has some historic connections that are no longer relevant in their current incarnation.

Nulli Secunda, second to misplaced notions of fealty and a twisted nostalgia.

[Themick]

I just stared at your avatar and sig for about 5 minutes dude and I still haven't read your post...

Edit: I just read it...

They're fucked.

[R0ot]

Yeah no it really wasn't. Ok, we didn't have any caps on field for obvious reasons, but I'm pretty sure most of us had a blast.

We did what I've been hoping we'd do for a while now. Form up and fight while outnumbered, giving no fucks as to the consequences.
I doubt anyone with a decent overview of what is going on in Delve at the moment thought we had a snowball's chance in hell of actually saving the timer.

What was the numbers difference in total? How many caps were involved? If you had all brought your cap alts like we do would they have evened up?

It's a bloc war after all so there is no :even: numbers or "gud fights" unless by complete accident.

[tgr]

I just stared at your avatar and sig for about 5 minutes dude and I still haven't read your post...

It's literally the first centra sig I've had to stare at every time he posts.

[Sath]

Just...wow.

You know there's a problem. You know what the problem is. You even know how to solve the problem.

But you continue to carry on because -A- has some historic connections that are no longer relevant in their current incarnation.

Nulli Secunda, second to misplaced notions of fealty and a twisted nostalgia.

So tomorrow Progod or Guderian goes to Herculetz and says "yo, we're running this war; Gorga is my Supreme Commander, Southwestern Theatre of Operations and you will take all marching orders from him." Herc responds "lol, who the fuck do you think you guys are?"...and that's the end of that. It's not simply a matter of fealty or nostalgia; it's the basic fact that at bottom, -A- only listens to -A-, and there's no way S2N can win this war without -A-'s help. Of course, we do have historic relationships and partnerships with -A-, and they have certainly aided us immensely in the past. That's why we're not about to stab them in the kidneys in some vain hope that it earns us a few dog-scrap handouts from Mittens' table. Fidelity and subservience are two entirely different things.

[Themick]

It's like crack for the eyes. Addicting. If ya'll put that on your ships soco would undock everyone just to watch it.


(Yeah...the undock joke is getting a lil played out)

Edit: Thanks to the above poster for freshening it up again because:

So tomorrow Progod or Guderian goes to Herculetz and says "yo, we're running this war; Gorga is my Supreme Commander, Southwestern Theatre of Operations and you will take all marching orders from him." Herc responds "lol, who the fuck do you think you guys are?", Progod responds with; "The FCs who undock?"

[tgr]

and there's no way S2N can win this war without -A-'s help.

I think you'll find that you can't win it with -A-'s help, either. That is, if you want to call "dock up" and "retreat to NPC stain" as "help".

At the very least, get rid of Makalu "If you don't want fights, that's fine, I'll just dock up. If you bring ships I don't like, I'll just dock up." Zarya. Kick his nigga ass to the curb.

[Sath]

I think you'll find that you can't win it with -A-'s help, either.

At the very least, get rid of Makalu "If you don't want fights, that's fine, I'll just dock up. If you bring ships I don't like, I'll just dock up." Zarya. Kick his nigga ass to the curb.

Well, if we can't win it without -A- and we can't win it with -A-, then we can't win it, period. If that's the case, we might as well make a go of it anyway, because when you're faced with "probably fucked if we try" and "definitely fucked if we don't", any sane man will roll his dice with "probably".

[Yoji]

Just...wow.

You know there's a problem. You know what the problem is. You even know how to solve the problem.

But you continue to carry on because -A- has some historic connections that are no longer relevant in their current incarnation.

Nulli Secunda, second to misplaced notions of fealty and a twisted nostalgia.

Just a lot of wordt saying: S2N should fight us alone again, we will promis to bring even numbers and no super caps. Scouts honor.

S2N and -A- have a good understanding of each other. Both understand that its 0.0 is not a democrasy. Fleets are not a BFF get together. Both are alliances that dont need to hold hands. Both alliances also dont place much value on owning space and live accordingly. Me, i love my s2n brosefs.

[Centra]

So tomorrow Progod or Guderian goes to Herculetz and says "yo, we're running this war; Gorga is my Supreme Commander, Southwestern Theatre of Operations and you will take all marching orders from him." Herc responds "lol, who the fuck do you think you guys are?", and that's the end of that. It's not simply a matter of fealty or nostalgia; it's the basic fact that at bottom, -A- only listens to -A-, and there's no way S2N can win this war without -A-'s help. Of course, we do have historic relationships and partnerships with -A-, and they have certainly aided us immensely in the past. That's why we're not about to stab them in the kidneys in some vain hope that it earns us a few dog-scrap handouts from Mittens' table, but fidelity and subservience are two entirely different things.

They only listen to themselves and tell you to do stuff without your input. Sounds like subservience to me. And, as it turns out, you're not going to win the war with them.

Just go your separate ways, this is an unhealthy relationship for the two of you.

[Some Lemming]

So tomorrow Progod or Guderian goes to Herculetz and says "yo, we're running this war; Gorga is my Supreme Commander, Southwestern Theatre of Operations and you will take all marching orders from him." Herc responds "lol, who the fuck do you think you guys are?", and that's the end of that. It's not simply a matter of fealty or nostalgia; it's the basic fact that at bottom, -A- only listens to -A-, and there's no way S2N can win this war without -A-'s help. Of course, we do have historic relationships and partnerships with -A-, and they have certainly aided us immensely in the past. That's why we're not about to stab them in the kidneys in some vain hope that it earns us a few dog-scrap handouts from Mittens' table, but fidelity and subservience are two entirely different things.

So say this happens, -a- "lol"s at s2n. Fuckall changes in s2n's predicament, they still get rolled by cfc/pl. The difference would be that s2n tried ~something~ to change the tide of war, which -a- obviously can't be assed to do.
-a- are shit allies, so even if s2n manages to stay on their good side, they get what? given some space in the southeast that will get rolled with no defense from their allies -a-? So more of the same.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

[Centra]

Just a lot of wordt saying: S2N should fight us alone again, we will promis to bring even numbers and no super caps. Scouts honor.

S2N and -A- have a good understanding of each other. Both understand that its 0.0 is not a democrasy. Fleets are not a BFF get together. Both are alliances that dont need to hold hands. Both alliances also dont place much value on owning space and live accordingly. Me, i love my s2n brosefs.

Nulli got that black-eye running into a doorknob, and fell down the stairs, and is really clumsy.

We only constantly ignore them and marginalize them because we love them

[Sath]

It's love, damnit. They just don't know how else to express it. If we just paid more attention to things, they wouldn't have to treat us like this. They hate doing this too, but it's for our own good.

Have I hit all the battered spouse notes yet?

[Bowkers]

Centra's sig is even better on an S3...

[Themick]

It's love, damnit. They just don't know how else to express it. If we just paid more attention to things, they wouldn't have to treat us like this. They hate doing this too, but it's for our own good.

Have I hit all the battered spouse notes yet?

You missed the part where you're staying for the kids(VCRUZ).

[Centra]

-A- went to get milk in Stain and never came back.

[Sath]

You missed the part where you're staying for the kids(VCRUZ).

Oh, that's a good point. We can't let Vera and Pangu grow up without a family. Huns are of an age that I think they'd understand, but it still wouldn't be fair to them.

[Themick]

You were selfish to ask them for help, -a- needed their "me" time.

[Yoji]

Nulli got that black-eye running into a doorknob, and fell down the stairs, and is really clumsy.

We only constantly ignore them and marginalize them because we love them

Aaaaah Now i understand. CFC is invading delve so S2N will see the error of their ways and join the CFC collective.

(now read with Morgan Freemans voice in your head)
"Just like a lone male peacock struts around displaying its feathers trying to win over a potential mate, So must the CFC come south and spam local with dick annalogies, to win over the hearts and minds of the southern alliances." "The mating call of the CFC is indead one of natures most beautifull dances."

[tgr]

Well, if we can't win it without -A- and we can't win it with -A-, then we can't win it, period. If that's the case, we might as well make a go of it anyway, because when you're faced with "probably fucked if we try" and "definitely fucked if we don't", any sane man will roll his dice with "probably".

I'd say that you would probably have a better chance at surviving this whole war without -A- tbh, because right now I'm getting more enthused about crushing your coalition under my heel (well ok, be part of the heel that crushes you, to be honest) because of makalu's incessant whining. It really is that bad. And this path will lead to losing your space within, what, a few weeks. There's no "probably" about that, but there is a "probably" about reforming a proper coalition with fresher, more energetic and less makalu-like people calling the shots.

I'll just point to Raiden. as an example of a group of people who held out against our onslaught for quite a while, and they had 1/30th the number SoCo has (in theory). That's the difference between good military leadership, and the current -A- style leadership, right there.

[Themick]

Dudes, as my 100th post, I just want to say, despite some of the shitposting, of which I contributed, most the peeps on this site are awesome and shit. Thanks for making things, especially fake spaceships, more entertaining for me.

[Centra]

Aaaaah Now i understand. CFC is invading delve so S2N will see the error of their ways and join the CFC collective.

(now read with Morgan Freemans voice in your head)
"Just like a lone male peacock struts around displaying its feathers trying to win over a potential mate, So must the CFC come south and spam local with dick annalogies, to win over the hearts and minds of the southern alliances." "The mating call of the CFC is indead one of natures most beautifull dances."

At least we're honest about our intentions.

[Prodnovick]

I find it hard to believe this war is over any future moon change. I say that because I don't think CCP will revert to the old system where Prom and Dysp were valuable. In fact in the CSM minutes CCP stated they were looking to get income away from moons in general and even went so far as to say they want less income for alliances and more wealth in the hands of the average member. Now CCP has done dumber things and I don't have any inside info from the CSM so I could be wrong, I just don't think its likely.

You know what will make eve better? MORE GRINDING!

[Vile rat]

Maybe Goonswarm would let itself be bossed around by Spacemonkeys or Fatal Ascension in a coalition-level war; maybe they wouldn't.

This is where the problem is. We expend a lot of time and effort working together and communicating. It doesn't just happen on its own, you gotta keep working at it.

[Bowkers]

Grinding is a necessity. To purge the rats, the structures must be toppled.

[Lorren Canada]

4 1/2 hours sitting on that station and killed a few frigs and a BC. i guess we know who the bitch in the CFC is now

So when CFC alliances deploy together they're horrible blobbers with no skill and no courage to fight alone, and when they're deployed on their own they are somebodies' bitch. Huuh, must suck to be in the CFC - sure glad I'm a Honeybadger now

[madp0k]

Never mind I can't read for shit

[Space cadet]

The propaganda machine trying to split SN2 away from -A- has gone into overdrive I see.
It would not matter who led the Soco or called the shots as things stand they cannot match what has to be the biggest blue nap fest ever assembled in EVE.
You have the vast reserves of ground troops supplied by the CFC combined with some of the most experianced bitter vets Eve has to offer running the show.
Their only chance in my opinion is to draw the attackers into a extreamly long drawn out Sov grind inflicting losses where possible but avoiding the massive set peice battles the attackers are looking for.

Lets not forget, America never lost a large set peice battle in Vietnam but they still did not win the war.

[Rezorek]

Oh shit, mentioning Vietnam! That's something you just can't extrapolate on a videogame~

I don't get how people defend Makalu saying they won the battle of C3N while in reality they lost a strategic objective+battle.

The comms, while they were funny, stooped down to new lows for -A-

As a true ally, -A- was proud that it had a green killboard! Priorities!

[Sean Alenko]

Confirming Triple shit are Gooks.

[Berdennol]

What was the numbers difference in total? How many caps were involved? If you had all brought your cap alts like we do would they have evened up?

It's a bloc war after all so there is no :even: numbers or "gud fights" unless by complete accident.

- 1350 vs 800
- 20 titans, 35 SC's, 25 dreads, 30 carriers (not sure how many were only there to shoot the ihub)
- You only brought all your caps if PL and TEST lost every single supercap they have in misplaced bets on TEST in the alliance tournament.

Really not sure what you're trying to point out. But my mother taught me to politely answer when people ask me questions.

[Grinder]

Personally I just don't get what Raiden. is doing in this war.

They've no real ties to -A-, Nulli, or anyone in SoCo.

They've no space to defend.

It can't be the goons thing because Raiden. moved down BEFORE the CFC deployed (just).

They're no being paid for it.

I don't get it, Raiden. has no income to speak off, they've got some cash left over from when they did own tech (and its not like they've done fuck all since leaving Tenal), but why go to Delve and just piss that money away on fights they can't ever win.

Eventually they'll have pissed up all their cash, still won't have any space or moons and won't have the ISK to actually get involved in a war they COULD stand a chance of winning.

[Themick]

The propaganda machine trying to split SN2 away from -A- has gone into overdrive I see.
It would not matter who led the Soco or called the shots as things stand they cannot match what has to be the biggest blue nap fest ever assembled in EVE.
You have the vast reserves of ground troops supplied by the CFC combined with some of the most experianced bitter vets Eve has to offer running the show.
Their only chance in my opinion is to draw the attackers into a extreamly long drawn out Sov grind inflicting losses where possible but avoiding the massive set peice battles the attackers are looking for.

Lets not forget, America never lost a large set peice battle in Vietnam but they still did not win the war.

Two things:

It's not a sov "grind" in the terms you define it. These guys, when I asked earlier, said that since Soco doesn't threaten the HB-CFC supers, they are flipping everything in the systems they attack super damn quick. There are no station shoots that last for 2-3 hours on one target. They are taking that amount of time to clear multiple targets.

So there goes that argument.

Next....set piece battle? What? Do you realize, the more Soco doesn't attack in a "set piece battle," the less likely they will have an opportunity to do so on their terms. At this rate, if you don't pick your spot and give it a go, Soco is gonna be pushed back to hell and gone.


A dent needs to be made on the super force that is being used against Soco. I have heard and read about how both sides have pretty good super numbers....welp fuck, CFC-HB are using theirs with no fear of reprisal. Soco, sack up and correct their thinking, or lose.

[Rezorek]

Personally I just don't get what Raiden. is doing in this war.

They've no real ties to -A-, Nulli, or anyone in SoCo.

They've no space to defend.

It can't be the goons thing because Raiden. moved down BEFORE the CFC deployed (just).

They're no being paid for it.

I don't get it, Raiden. has no income to speak off, they've got some cash left over from when they did own tech (and its not like they've done fuck all since leaving Tenal), but why go to Delve and just piss that money away on fights they can't ever win.

Eventually they'll have pissed up all their cash, still won't have any space or moons and won't have the ISK to actually get involved in a war they COULD stand a chance of winning.

Delve is not only a battlefield but also where weary old alliances/corps go to die.

[Grinder]

A dent needs to be made on the super force that is being used against Soco. I have heard and read about how both sides have pretty good super numbers....welp fuck, CFC-HB are using theirs with no fear of reprisal. Soco, sack up and correct their thinking, or lose.

Big difference the CFC can afford to lose probably ALL their supers and still replace them, no one in the SoCo can, so it's just not going to happen.

I'm waiting for "T1 crusier lol gangs" being used.

[Finiks]

I don't think there needs to be any sort of propaganda-based motivation to tell you how stupid this is.

We have done dumber things in our history. Like sticking with IT Alliance even after they gave up on themselves. So don't worry, we got this covered. \o/

[Grinder]

Delve is not only a battlefield but also where weary old alliances/corps go to die.

I thought that was Curse, and Raiden. spent a good couple of months there doing fuck all and still didn't manage to 'die'. Still seems a pointless exercise to me.

[Richter Belmont]

Two things:

It's not a sov "grind" in the terms you define it. These guys, when I asked earlier, said that since Soco doesn't threaten the HB-CFC supers, they are flipping everything in the systems they attack super damn quick. There are now station shoots that last for 2-3 hours on one target.

Confirming that pos.jpg has had around three dozen hostile timers on it constantly since about two days before the SOTA we had.

They only fought us on one so far - and promptly lost.

[R0ot]

Their only chance in my opinion is to draw the attackers into a extreamly long drawn out Sov grind inflicting losses where possible but avoiding the massive set peice battles the attackers are looking for.

Let me tell you how well this worked out for
- PL in Fountain vs. BOB
- MC in PB/Querious vs. BOB
- Northern Coalition vs. PL/NC./Raiden

I could go on here.

[Ivo THE1]

We should have an honor fight and have dbrb fc the -a- fleet and makalu fc the cfc fleet and it would be glorious.
I bet half of -a- would join FA and all the goonies would be in tears by the end of it.

Confirming that this would be the case, and yet our PvP ability would not improve in any way.

*Didn't realise I was 4 pages behind*
That soundcloud of soco shooting friggies is great.

[Rezorek]

I thought that was Curse, and Raiden. spent a good couple of months there doing fuck all and still didn't manage to 'die'. Still seems a pointless exercise to me.

Uh, BoB, KZK, Goons, MM, countless others.

And they lost Ankou + bleeding members in general.

They have no direction..

[R0ot]

- 1350 vs 800
- 20 titans, 35 SC's, 25 dreads, 30 carriers (not sure how many were only there to shoot the ihub)
- You only brought all your caps if PL and TEST lost every single supercap they have in misplaced bets on TEST in the alliance tournament.

Really not sure what you're trying to point out. But my mother taught me to politely answer when people ask me questions.

Well I'm sort of asking a really simple and cut down question with :words:

"Where are all YOUR supers?"

Apart from the ones in GE- DD'ing carriers on undock that is.

[Themick]

Big difference the CFC can afford to lose probably ALL their supers and still replace them, no one in the SoCo can, so it's just not going to happen.

I'm waiting for "T1 crusier lol gangs" being used.

If they do not attack those supers then those supers will have free reign. It isn't just about being risk averse. It seems to me if you get too afraid to fight then you just get fucked in this game.

[Grinder]

They have no direction..

Oh i'm not argueing that they aren't dieing, i just meant they should have died a while ago and for some reason they stubornly refuse to accept that it's over. Truth it won't be over till finfleet accept it and move on.

I would have expected the last 4 months of doing pretty much nothing would have killed them off but i guess an alliance of old timers means they're happy to just stay logged playing BF3, D3 and waiting patiently for a jabber ping, even if they're months apart.

[Grinder]

"Where are all YOUR supers?"

Raiden.'s supers are all in curse.

[Some Lemming]

If they do not attack those supers then those supers will have free reign. It isn't just about being risk averse. It seems to me if you get too afraid to fight then you just get fucked in this game.

Or s2n drops supers on CFC/PL supers, and lose them all. Then CFC/PL supers have free reign anyway. Can't blame them for not wanting to lose an entire super fleet for no gain.