The great Tech nerf.

[Quesa]

Could someone tell me WHAT they are going to do? All I hear is it's coming but nobody has really told me what they are going to do.

Dev links would be cool too.

[Marivauder]

I think nerf is coming to moon mining itself instead of just tech, like at fanfest the unveiled being able to locally mine moon materials in belts or somethin

Correct me if i'm wrong

[Quesa]

I saw the thing about moon minerals finding their way to asteroids or something, so I think you are right about that. However, it doesn't seem like much of a nerf.

[Berious]

Unless are completely stupid they'll keep some static sources of income to fight over or literally what's the point of 0.0 wars? Better ratting and grudges only take you so far. Fuck emad empire bears who think they should get a slice of the tech pie with thier 10 man mining corp.

[Grogoth]

As someone in the tech coalition, but without a tech moon, I am probably as unbiased as you will get.

Nerfing moon mining itself is not ideal, Tech itself will need a rebalance.

Doesn't tech alone make up almost 50% of the cost of ALL t2 ships? I was reading some pubbie shit along those lines - if that is the case, that is p gay.

It kinda makes me thing that you should have each region make a certain type of r64 (not fucking r32), so for example, you need mins from delve to make amarr ships, mins from venal to make caldari, mins from curse to make minmatar, or some shit like that. Have 4 racial variants of tech~

Still have wars, still have alliance hording, still have fights, just more balanced than how it is now (which is p bad)

[jimmychrist]

Unless are completely stupid they'll keep some static sources of income to fight over or literally what's the point of 0.0 wars?

It's interesting that tech have now reached a point where it's more profitable to agree NOT to fight over it.

[Brooks Puuntai]

As someone in the tech coalition, but without a tech moon, I am probably as unbiased as you will get.

Nerfing moon mining itself is not ideal, Tech itself will need a rebalance.

Doesn't tech alone make up almost 50% of the cost of ALL t2 ships? I was reading some pubbie shit along those lines - if that is the case, that is p gay.

It kinda makes me thing that you should have each region make a certain type of r64 (not fucking r32), so for example, you need mins from delve to make amarr ships, mins from venal to make caldari, mins from curse to make minmatar, or some shit like that. Have 4 racial variants of tech~

Still have wars, still have alliance hording, still have fights, just more balanced than how it is now (which is p bad)

Yes Nanotransistors and Fullerides(both made from Tech) are needed in every T2 ship and T2 module in the game. This is why it is such a fucking bottleneck because it is used in everything but only located in 1 general area of space. Also yes it does make up the bulk of the cost when building. The idea of racial moon mins is already done however you will run into a issue where some space(Minmatar) will be much more valuable then others due to their T2 being shit and not as high demand(Gallente). Which granted isn't necessarily bad but can inherently make one area of space rich and the other shit, so it wouldn't solve the current issue. I always felt that throttling moon production based off of volume used would be best to keep things somewhat even, however this would require a lot of thought and work which CCP would still fuck up.

[Vile rat]

Completely unrelated we're having a cooking contest who's prize is 45b fucking isk so yeah tech is pretty damn retarded and it's actually kinda challenging finding ways to spend it all so some dumbshit doesn't rmt it.

[Kanloch]

Completely unrelated we're having a cooking contest who's prize is 45b fucking isk so yeah tech is pretty damn retarded and it's actually kinda challenging finding ways to spend it all so some dumbshit doesn't rmt it.

Give me it, I'll invest it wisely in plexes, supercapitals and supercapital pilots.

[Brooks Puuntai]

Completely unrelated we're having a cooking contest who's prize is 45b fucking isk so yeah tech is pretty damn retarded and it's actually kinda challenging finding ways to spend it all so some dumbshit doesn't rmt it.

Buy me some plexes so I can continue to not log in but still train skills I'll never use and troll Eve-O. Thanks.

[Malcanis]

Could someone tell me WHAT they are going to do? All I hear is it's coming but nobody has really told me what they are going to do.

Dev links would be cool too.

R32/64 Alchemy would be the lazy way to do it.

Adding an active source (in the sense that moon mining is "passive" and yes I know that POS are but not in the same way) like ring/comet mining would also be a useful safety valve, but as said above the "tech moons incentivise fights" line is pretty much discredited by the Tech NIP currently maintained by the moon owners.

If we want Tech to incentivise actual ship combat fights instead of forum shitposting fights then the best way to do this is to require people who want to collect it to put ships into space where other people can shoot those ships, not hide behind shitty timers

[Grath]

hide behind shitty timers

This is basically EVEonlines short description

[Grogoth]

Which granted isn't necessarily bad but can inherently make one area of space rich and the other shit, so it wouldn't solve the current issue.

Yeah OK, you're dumb.

Instead of having one region responsible for 50% of all ships, I am talking about 3 regions, each responsible for 30% of the ships being built. There is a difference.

Sure, gallente get the dick, but who fucking cares. In fact, no they wouldn't - hulks and shit are gallente.

So you are double dumb, eat my nigger

[Brooks Puuntai]

Yeah OK, you're dumb.

Instead of having one region responsible for 50% of all ships, I am talking about 3 regions, each responsible for 30% of the ships being built. There is a difference.

Sure, gallente get the dick, but who fucking cares. In fact, no they wouldn't - hulks and shit are gallente.

So you are double dumb, eat my nigger

It was an example. However it is similar in the sense that you will have one area of space that is greatly worth more then another, which is currently what the issue is when you break it down. If you have a material that is ONLY found in a one area you then create a bottleneck for that particular faction, thus all your achieving is turning 1 bottle neck into 3. As I said its not a bad idea, but it doesn't solve the underlining issue of creating bottlenecks when it comes to T2 production and moon mins, but I guess you ignored that part before you splurged liked a raving faggot.

[Grogoth]

Well, one bottleneck into four.

It is the best solution I have seen so far, primarily because I have ignored most other solutions (because they were shit).

But please, continue on with your proposal, which was retarded and gay or something

[Manfred Hideous]

What about making moons dynamic? Give them X number of resource units and when those units are expended, respawn them from a random table. If the moon gets shit mins and nobody mines it, respawn in three months from the randomized table. That way you would actually have to scan the moons more frequently to see if it's worth putting a tower on. If someone is already mining it, you wouldn't simply consult dotlan to see if you want it. You'd need to do some actual work.

It can even be tailored such that the better security your space is, the more units of whatever mineral is randomized will appear. Deep null would get the best moons (in terms of quantities) and no small set of regions would have the decisive advantage. You'd also have people moving their towers far more often to new moons. More targets.

[Malcanis]

This is basically EVEonlines short description

It is, and they need to be burned out of the game with cleansing fire like the evil witchspawn that they are.

[Kanloch]

A dumb and only 1/10th serious idea:

have a little bit of technetium come out when refining all asteroid rocks.

[Grogoth]

That is actually not a bad idea at all, if EVERYTHING came from mining with boats instead of towers, thered be more faggots in nullsec~

[Kanloch]

You could then have certain minerals restricted to the various tiers of the game e.g. tech in nullsec roids, prom in low-sec.


Would (possibly) encourage miners to come out of high-sec.



That or have moons actively mined and spread the various resources out amongst the systems.

[Brooks Puuntai]

A dumb and only 1/10th serious idea:

have a little bit of technetium come out when refining all asteroid rocks.

There was a similar idea awhile ago that instead of having defined roids(Veld, Omber, etc) they would just be clusters. When mined you would randomly get any type as well as random moon minerals(or clusters that could be refined for moon mins), you could expand that by creating a Orca or Rorq type mining ship that could focus on just finding moon mins in roids for better yields.

[Kanloch]

It would certainly eliminate the bottleneck problem.

[poaw]

Sure, gallente get the dick, but who fucking cares. In fact, no they wouldn't - hulks and shit are gallente.

Gallente would be fine, Caldari would be shit on repeatedly and without mercy. Their entire tech 2 cruiser lineup is like a punishment for the Drake and Tengu.

[Grogoth]

Yeah, no-one uses falcons or tenjews

[Wusti]

What about making moons dynamic? Give them X number of resource units and when those units are expended, respawn them from a random table. If the moon gets shit mins and nobody mines it, respawn in three months from the randomized table. That way you would actually have to scan the moons more frequently to see if it's worth putting a tower on. If someone is already mining it, you wouldn't simply consult dotlan to see if you want it. You'd need to do some actual work.

It can even be tailored such that the better security your space is, the more units of whatever mineral is randomized will appear. Deep null would get the best moons (in terms of quantities) and no small set of regions would have the decisive advantage. You'd also have people moving their towers far more often to new moons. More targets.

I put this idea forward a couple of years ago to simulate real world scenarios of "veins of ore" in moons.

I was promptly shat on rather fiercely by our logi team who had no wish to move towers around willy nilly and be constantly scanning every moon in space. Personally i think its the fairest way to handle the distribution of it but the mechanics of towers (how mind numbingly long it takes for no apparent purpose) and scanning (will one scan yield a different result to another immediately or within a certain time frame or will it be fixed until its mined out) will need serious work to make it feasible.

[Richter Belmont]

I put this idea forward a couple of years ago to simulate real world scenarios of "veins of ore" in moons.

I was promptly shat on rather fiercely by our logi team who had no wish to move towers around willy nilly and be constantly scanning every moon in space. Personally i think its the fairest way to handle the distribution of it but the mechanics of towers (how mind numbingly long it takes for no apparent purpose) and scanning (will one scan yield a different result to another immediately or within a certain time frame or will it be fixed until its mined out) will need serious work to make it feasible.

It could also have the unintended consequence of trickling the income sources down from alliance-level to corp level. If moons weren't as easy as "check dotlan, anchor tower" and they switched shit themselves I know that I would be probing down moons to find that motherlode that others have not struck rich with.

[Wusti]

I don't think there is an issue with that really. If it breaks the hold of alliances and allows for another layer of sneakiness wtf is wrong with that?

[Grogoth]

Given CCPs new found hatred of passive income streams, I expect it is coming soon(tm)

[jimmychrist]

The only passive income stream CCP likes is people subbing up for a year in advance while their developers produces four cupboards and some shirts

[Grogoth]

Incorrect. Sub for a year, then get permabanned.

[WomynPower]

It was an example. However it is similar in the sense that you will have one area of space that is greatly worth more then another, which is currently what the issue is when you break it down. If you have a material that is ONLY found in a one area you then create a bottleneck for that particular faction, thus all your achieving is turning 1 bottle neck into 3. As I said its not a bad idea, but it doesn't solve the underlining issue of creating bottlenecks when it comes to T2 production and moon mins, but I guess you ignored that part before you splurged liked a raving faggot.

You're wrong and the counterpoint is high end drug manufacture, at which my corp among other things, specializes in.

The materials you need to make drugs are found in static positions in space, with the locals who live there quite happy to do nothing other than attempt to hunt down would be miners, which can lead to supply issues, but considering there'd be several REGIONS of space for the racially split 'tech' it wouldn't be so bad.

[Some Lemming]

You're wrong and the counterpoint is high end drug manufacture, at which my corp among other things, specializes in.

The materials you need to make drugs are found in static positions in space, with the locals who live there quite happy to do nothing other than attempt to hunt down would be miners, which can lead to supply issues, but considering there'd be several REGIONS of space for the racially split 'tech' it wouldn't be so bad.

Good point. The price point of materials pretty well eliminates profitability of making standard boosters without having control over the constellation of interest for that booster. All the extra work of mixing and matching components drives the price for improved and strong boosters up, but the profitability only goes up.

I like the idea of racial 'tech', perhaps the tech should be mixed based on the pirate type racial mix (blood raider space gets amarr and minmatar goo; angels get minmatar and gallente; etc etc). This would encourage CCP to add some more pirate types; two pirate types that are gallente/minmatar, no gallente/amarr mix, no caldari/minmatar mix. Plus, give me new, bespoke models for the few remaining pirate ships that don't have them; the bhaalgorn isnt nearly pimp looking enough.

[Mfume]

Yeah, no-one uses falcons or tenjews

Yes, because much technetium is required for a Tengu.

[Quesa]

We don't need racial tech because the moon minerals themselves are already distributed unevenly through the different quadrants. The real tragedy was the rage change to Tech after the other CSM debacle without full thought being given. I don't have a huge understanding of what is used in all types of production but I've been told that Tech is a bottleneck because it's used in the all T2 production at some point.

[Grogoth]

You seem to italicise shit that has no relevance.

[Brooks Puuntai]

Wasn't the CSM debacle a byproduct of the Tech changes. Or is there another CSM Tech debacle that I'm missing.

[Quesa]

Wasn't the CSM debacle a byproduct of the Tech changes. Or is there another CSM Tech debacle that I'm missing.

IIRC the new high end mineral was going to be another mineral, then some CSM guy tried to buy it all up before the change so they made a decision for it to then be Tech.

[Grogoth]

Larkonis?

[Brooks Puuntai]

Larkonis?

Yes

IIRC the new high end mineral was going to be another mineral, then some CSM guy tried to buy it all up before the change so they made a decision for it to then be Tech.

Was it ever said that they actually switched the mineral, or was it just assumed(I don't remember)? Always figured it was always Tech and that's what he was caught buying, though never stated to avoid speculation buying. Either way depending on what mineral they possibly going to choose would have probably caused the same issue we have now, just under a different name. Since CCP had the ideology that making tech what it is today was a good idea to fuel fights over space, by making 1 area 10x more valuable then the rest. Which did kind of work for a short time.

[StevieTopSiders]

ITT people write like J.D. Fucking Salinger.

[Nobani]

It was an example. However it is similar in the sense that you will have one area of space that is greatly worth more then another, which is currently what the issue is when you break it down. If you have a material that is ONLY found in a one area you then create a bottleneck for that particular faction, thus all your achieving is turning 1 bottle neck into 3. As I said its not a bad idea, but it doesn't solve the underlining issue of creating bottlenecks when it comes to T2 production and moon mins, but I guess you ignored that part before you splurged liked a raving faggot.

On the other hand, having a different bottleneck for each faction would provide some level of balancing between the different factions' T2 ships since the good ships would tend to be more expensive than the bad ones.

[cold one]

R32/64 Alchemy would be the lazy way to do it.

An overhaul of alchemy would be a good start. If it's lazy, okay. Maybe lazy can get done by CCP with lower likelihood of unintended stuff happening, too.

[Richter Belmont]

On the other hand, having a different bottleneck for each faction would provide some level of balancing between the different factions' T2 ships since the good ships would tend to be more expensive than the bad ones.

I thought this was the whole point of different moons being seeded in different regions. See: fucktons of neo in Delve, tech all over the north.