So the CSM spent 31 pages talking about itself.
Best use of time possible: (y/n)
http://community.eveonline.com/counc..._June_2012.pdf
[fake stealth edit]Sorry, 41 pages. They seem to have finally moved on, though.
[fake clairvoyant edit]I would have to visit EN24 to link an article. Not gonna happen.
Oh god, if you had linked an EN24 article... I don't know, I can't even think what I would do because I start shutting down.
I've noticed that there's a pretty big disconnect between the general consensus of kugu and what's actually happening. It seems enough people have said it in this thread that people are taking it as fact.
Due to Iceland’s weather being very hot that day (above freezing), ice cream was offered to people present at the session.
Reading the section on ship balance and iteration always makes me sad
So I really liked the minutes last year, they were short, sweet, and easy to read. A rather vocal section of the community, however, disagreed with my sentiment calling them a hegemonic summary with no accountability. Their message was "we want more information, more accountability, WE WANT TO KNOW EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED!" So the CSM chose this year to do just that, and the result is a 165 page recount of every exchange. It is very interesting, to say the least. I'm curious to see the overall reaction from the slightly less pubbie sperging community here because eve-o is quite figuratively a cesspool with people like Jade Constantine hurf blufing about how real life is super relevant to spaceships and how he RPs a brothel or something, idk.
So the million dollar question: did you read the minutes last year, are you going to read/skim the minutes this time, or is the new format simply too daunting to bother?
Also you should post the good bits (good meaning "good" and "") ITT
True, I have raped history, but it has produced some beautiful offspring
"CCP Soundwave then commented that it sounded like if everyone lived in complete misery in EVE, itwould be a better game?
Seleene and UAxDEATH agreed to that. "
I am a horrible nerd and therefore read the ship balancing, crimewatch, and nullsec bits. Won't read the whole thing because it's too long and I don't care enough. The nullsec bit was basically pointless since they're not going to be doing anything serious on it for several months at minimum and so everything in there is pretty speculative, although "you only need 16/17 titans... not a lot" was amusing. Crimewatch was a mixed bag - the bit about logi inheriting docking/jumping aggression timers is good as long as they're not refreshed by repping other logi or combat ships that aren't aggressing, the proposed increase to sentry damage sounds stupid. Ship balancing was mostly good and while there were bits and pieces I dislike or think may be implemented in a bad way (frigate-sized logistics, increases to blackops combat capability, changes to the way links and leadership bonuses in general work), there wasn't really anything specific enough in there to say much about one way or another.
[I]spherical monkey fears and envies[/I]
Too many words.
Lol what Elise?"Elise said that moons were a huge conflict driver for one month of the year, the eleven other months it is not."
Helios Black - Origin. - Black Legion.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The POS bits are awesome, I didn't expect anything anywhere near that cool.
Favorite bit:
The whole POS section is actually worth reading. I STG.Two step asked about if there would be a way to add a POS to the overview, via a beacon or something. CCP wasn't sure if this would be present. Two step then asked about if the new starbases would be able to be opened to the public. CCP said yes.
Seleene said, "I want to cloak my secret pirate starbase." Greyscale said that might be a possibility, then shocked the entire room by mentioning offhand, "I really, really, really want to let you put a jump drive on them." The whole room erupted into smiles. He then continued, "Not just right click cyno jump, but you put a beacon down and it takes something like 48 hours before you jump." He wanted to do this to allow small gangs to have a roaming base.
My main criticism is that the proposed fix to warfare links will be only to the benefit of large fleets, gatecamps, station huggers, and gay shit in general. I also think the Brutix's problems go deeper than insufficient rep bonuses (not enough slots milord, low PG means fitting shitty guns which means you can't do damage past paint-scraping range, extremely vulnerable to neuting, etc.) and that CCP's inexplicable resistance to making any caldari ship a viable close-range platform is part of the reason caldari is so fucking terrible. I also think that giving the phoon a TP bonus would be pretty pointless since it only has four mids to begin with (I think it could work if you trade a high for a mid)
Originally Posted by Viribus
For those scrubs who don't want to read the minutes, what is the proposed change to warefare links?
Hi, I'm Two Step and I disagree with EVERY FUCKING THING
Faction Warfare cyno jammers would make moving capital ships anywhere the biggest pain in the ass if you couldn't mid through low sec.Wrapping up the discussion of system upgrades, Hans’ notes pointed out that cyno jammers are one of the most popular “missing” upgrades that didn't make it into Inferno, and that the developers should continue with the design process on this idea, regardless of the challenges posed by 0.0 groups that would threaten to intervene.
Elise Randolph immediately said that this would be a “terrible, terrible, terrible idea.
Elise warned that if a Factional Warfare group were ever to interfere with his supply chain, he would send people into Factional Warfare for a month just to ruin everything for them, as a warning not to meddle in the future. He also warned that this is what every large entity would do as well.”
Helios Black - Origin. - Black Legion.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
not to mention making it really hard for anyone that was independent to stage / live in lowsec or NPC null
That Two Step nigger likes the sound of his own voice doesn't he
Shame he doesn't have anything constructive to add rather than just shitting on everything
They want to make them on-grid only. I think this is a shit idea because it would mean the huge advantage of warfare links would only be practically available to gangs large enough to support a CS (IE, lots of logi and shit) or gangs that hug stations and gates, where a CS could just jump out/dock up if they take heat. Most nano gangs wouldn't be able to accommodate something as slow/large as a command ship, and locally-tanked ships would just have their links primaried.
Most large gangs use on-grid links anyway, since relying on off-grid boosts severely limits the mobility of your fleet and allows your links to be taken out by a good prober. Making links on-grid only would basically leave blobs and gate/station camps unaffected and remove the option of links for many small roaming gangs.
Personally I think having a class of ships that just sit there and passively make other ships better is fucking horrible game design and they should be nerfed into the ground across the board, but making them on-grid only would leave us worse off than we started
I wasn't elected to go to the summit and sit on my hands. Given that I was quoted in this very thread offering some pretty decent suggestions, I think saying that I "shat on everything" isn't quite fair.
Exactly. Who is seriously arguing in favor of this change? Is this being pushed by the 0.0 dudes? I am confused here. CCP seems to have a really weird way of prioritizing 'problems' - this is not even clearly 'broke' so why fix it? And why fix it instead of other more damaging problems?
I'd say the kind of pvp most CSM members do, if any, is large-scale. I don't think it's maliciously intended to fuck over small gangs to the benefit of large fleets and camps, I just think most CSM and CCP genuinely don't consider the secondary consequences of what superficially appears to be a reasonable gameplay change.
I think the on-grid/off-grid distinction is terrible and will only lead to hilarious use of grid-fu.
On the other hand I do have Command Ships V and people constantly asking for boosting T3s (which I can fly as well but don't like) has annoyed me to the point that I only use my leadership character for high-sec hauling.
But there would have been different ways to make command ships more useful compared to T3s.
Only you think they were decent suggestions; everyone else thinks you're a prick.
Helios Black - Origin. - Black Legion.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I also thought some CCP dude said that the off/on grid distinction would be extremely resource-intensive but I heard this like, fourth-hand
It's a shame Fon Revedhort didn't get elected, he'd keep two step in line
Just going to step in here and point out, not all of low sec is Faction Warfare.. and very few system are upgraded at all atm.
So don't you worry.
Offgrid links are pretty stupidly broken precisely because they're so strong you're required to field them in any gang you take. The advantages are so massive that you're incentivized to use them in everything from "solo" roaming to large-scale fleet fights. Also I'm pretty sure nanogangs were able to meek by before offgrid links existed~
True, I have raped history, but it has produced some beautiful offspring
I think right now T3 link ships are overpowered, they can cloak, are nullified, hard to probe and give more boost then the T2 CS. There should be some change (switch the bonus so CS is a bit better?)
But i also think off-grid boost needs to stay. In my lowsec corp we got lots of people roaming around in a 1 to 5 pilot strong fleet with an offgrid T3 (dualboxed). We need the booster to fight larger enemy fleets. Fleets the same size often run.
___
Who does not want a penis shaped POS?CCP Greyscale said about the layout, "We want to have it yours, we want players to say, 'I want tomake it look like the ISS', or 'I want to make it look like a spider', or whatever." Two step suggested
many players might make penis shapes instead.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah dude, you killed it.Two step: (who is the current Secretary) Seems more like a task for the Vice-Secretary (HansJagerblitzen) to me.
(laughter and mockery)
CCP Xhagen: So you want something to do, but you don't want to do it? I see...
(more laughter)
Two step: No, seriously...
Trebor: We need to make sure this point gets prominently explained in the minutes.
Seleene: Like I said, there's many ways you can do things. Before we came to the summit, I put theinformation out everywhere I could. So what does the Secretary do? Talk about what we're doing?
CCP Xhagen: And accurately report it.
UAxDEATH: Guess what, Josh...
CCP Xhagen: I will remind everyone that they did want their statements to be personally attributedin the minutes.
(more laughter)
Two step ended the meeting by continuing to express his objections to the idea
So surely the problem is because, as you state, the advantage is "massive"? How about, gee I dunno, making the advantage less massive instead of making the advantage only available to certain fleets?
You're a complete faggot about the things you disagree with and seem to be intent on making this known at least 5 times before the discussion is over.
Honestly I'd like a summary better because I've got better things to do on a summer afternoon than read a massive transcript. Like orbiting beacons.
Oh yes, please. The ~15 Pilots active in my corp have about ~12 T3 Booster alts, biomass them all?
___
I don't know if i like thatCCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone witha criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage,
and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2
minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must
commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage
before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to
make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle,
and then a warp out.
That sounds like something that needs testing on Sisi. I hope the guns still split the damage.
It would remove the lowsec gatecamps, could be fun. But then i want something in return, like removing GCC and make it local to that gate/station/system. Or reduce it to ~3 minutes.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Scotch for CSM: He's not Twostep.
[05:28:32] Damienwhat Solette > friend said, if only they didn't have those 2 falcons there, i said they have 3, and he said that just says they don't want to do anything fair, just want to be dicks about it like not normal dicks but big black huge cocks
I liked the part during the Nullsec section where there's some talk about Incursions and UA is like RETURNINK TO SUBJEKT
If you really want to hurt people, give them exactly what they ask for.
I was major dissapoint in this.
The topic is 5 pages, and derails for two or three of them.
Conclusion, none.
Fuck all is going to be done for or to 0.0, other than cutting the dick of carrier owners and "fixing tech".
wolololol.
This has to be a troll. So we're talking about sentry guns ramping up to 10-20k dps in order to overcome the local tank on a triage carrier. In 4 and 1/2 minutes. Oh, and, since they're splitting damage, it is being applied to all ships, or the triage won't die - so like 10k dps per ship on grid. So any fight on a low sec gate better be wrapped up in 4.5 mins, or every capital sized ship or smaller lower on whichever side is GCC is dead.
I mean, I can see how desperately this change is needed, so I'm glad they're doing something about the scourge of gate camping triage carriers in low sec. I drove through Black Rise the other day and it was wild. Nearly every gate had one or two triage carriers on it, just blapping everything. Sometimes there were whole gangs of carriers, all in triage, just ownzing every ship that tried to go through. Even ABing rifters were getting volleyed. Thank god I had my own, (game breaking) off-grid booster to even the odds against those triage carrier gate camps. WTF are you people smoking when you go to Iceland?
Details are good, others can make TL;DRs for busy/ADHD people
I read the whole thing, came away with a sense of who we should keep or vote out of the CSM
Also, the devs were very explicit about priorities and constraints, managing expectations FTW
This post happily existed in all possible states before you observed it. Now it has collapsed into a single state.
I hope you're satisfied, fuckwad
Maybe keep the advantage to on grid boosters the same but nerf off grid boosting a bit? A lot of large fleet concepts depend on the boosts to be viable.
Reduce Warfare Processor bonus to 2% effectiveness.
I speed-read so I'll probably read the entire thing, but even speedreading it is pretty fucking daunting.So I really liked the minutes last year, they were short, sweet, and easy to read. A rather vocal section of the community, however, disagreed with my sentiment calling them a hegemonic summary with no accountability. Their message was "we want more information, more accountability, WE WANT TO KNOW EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED!" So the CSM chose this year to do just that, and the result is a 165 page recount of every exchange. It is very interesting, to say the least. I'm curious to see the overall reaction from the slightly less pubbie sperging community here because eve-o is quite figuratively a cesspool with people like Jade Constantine hurf blufing about how real life is super relevant to spaceships and how he RPs a brothel or something, idk.
So the million dollar question: did you read the minutes last year, are you going to read/skim the minutes this time, or is the new format simply too daunting to bother?
Also you should post the good bits (good meaning "good" and "
I burned out halfway through. I'll pick up the rest tomorrow.
It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't spending half the time sharing people's "witty" remarks. It reads like Chess Club Meeting Minutes.
Which, I guess, it kinda is.
This should be extended to the CSM itself - remove two step from it.CCP Xhagen: So the basic feedback from the CSM is "don't add steps".Two step: And if you can reduce steps, that would be better, and make it more likely to get a good reception.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills
Well, then we need new fleet concepts. Boosts in their current state are absurdly broken.A lot of large fleet concepts depend on the boosts to be viable.
All he does is fucking whine, the whole CSM.Two step: I thought of the minutes as a place where we could have required work...
CCP Xhagen: I understand, but they are not the correct venue. But like I said, you have the tool in the White Paper where you can set up conditions where if a guy doesn't show up to two meetings in a row, he can be removed from the CSM.
Two step: It seems silly to call a meeting every two weeks on Skype just to eliminate inactive people.
KICK TWO STEP.
Helios Black - Origin. - Black Legion.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
i'm not reading the rest of this thread so if it gets answered my bad.
Offgrid T3 links run the disadvantage of not being on grid. it takes up a command spot and you can't activate them right away. you need to warp off and set up a safe then activate. it's 100% of the time an alt of somebody else in fleet. of all people i'd think you would be responsive to how the rewards balance with the cost.
Ron Mexxico - Broski North
Helios Black > not mad ron
So how was the vibe this time compared to last year Elise?
tldr - will the drone bay of supers be addressed at any stage?
only having room for 10 fighters in an Aeons drone bay is utterly ridiculous, having to pull more from your cargo just so that you can deploy a full set in any super carrier is so stupid that i cannot comprehend a way to express how i feel.
this whole "we are doing crap all on eve until next year" is getting a bit on my nerves.
I'd rather have elise make a digestible audiobook version.
I'm up to page 11 of 165. Going good so far, the CSM that got elected apparently acted like undisciplined children!
Just reached the part where people are bitching about inactivity. That's not your job as CSM dudes to worry about, that's for the electorate to worry about. If a CSM member wants to spend all his time banging hookers and getting totally blazed and they deliver nothing to their electorate they get voted out. Stop being bitches about it.
-edit- page 30, still talking about themselves.
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