2012 US Election thread - slowly going nowhere

[Fartman]

lmao

TWS: Leader Reid, when it comes to the Bush tax cuts…why didn’t Senate Democrats push through this bill [to raise taxes on the "rich"] back when you controlled the Senate, the House, and the presidency?
REID: The tax cuts weren’t about to expire then. So that’s why we’re doing it now.
TWS: You could have foreseen this issue two years ago.
REPORTER: What are you talking about? They expired at the end of 2010.
REID: And that’s why they were extended one year.
TWS: Why didn’t they vote when you could have pushed this bill through and had it signed into law?
REID: Next question.

[Rer]

Could nuke dudes vOv

[Night]

I don't get where "Russian and China are acting aggressive" is coming from. The only "aggresive" things they've done are saying "No" and I think somwhere in the last year or so China bought an aircraft carrier the size of Starbucks parking lot from the 1960s.

You mean aside from Russia invading its neighbor Georgia in 2008 and China engaging in various shenanigans over disputed maritime borders and the Spratleys?

[Fartman]

wasn't it his old pastor who called him a "long legged mac daddy"

that was a different nut..



i could listen to this dude all day he's great

also he's criticizing obama must be a racist

[Fartman]

this was/is obama's nut

[poaw]

You mean aside from Russia invading its neighbor Georgia in 2008 and China engaging in various shenanigans over disputed maritime borders and the Spratleys?

Unless Russia could smell the fear coming from Senator Obama and decided to invade before he was even President I can't see how you can blame him for the South Ossetian War, and the posturing over the Spratley Islands isn't a new thing. It's always been there, what China is doing now isn't some shocking lead-up to an explosive finale. Their actions seem to be in response to what the other nations with claims are doing and completely reasonable at that.

Try to look at it from their perspective. When Russia said yay on a UN resolution about how civilian casulties are bad it somehow became carte blanche to bomb the shit out of one of their allies before taking their leader out behind the chemical sheds and capping him. The west is on it's 3rd or 4th grassroots and totally without foreign intervention revolution in which an otherwise stable and long standing trade partner of theirs implodes while NATO snickers in the background. The shit must look like Eastern Europe right after WW2. Except now we can jump up and say, "NOW YOU KNOW HOW IT FEELS LIKE BITCH".

[Night]

I'm not blaming him the slightest. You asked how they were being aggressive, I answered. There have been acts of aggression in recent history; and besides, acting contrary to a country's interests is generally considered hostile. That acting contrary to those interests is in your interest is not normally considered a mitigating factor, but rather an aggravating one.

Also, this idea that because something isn't new it doesn't make it threatening. Yes, nobody's pushed the fire button, but that doesn't mean that they won't do it this time; simple logic suggests that the more times time you engage in shenanigans the probability of something seriously bad happening whether you want it to or not approaches one. That China has a habit of this behavior makes it a more serious threat, not a lesser one. (See also North Korea's habit of trying to provoke its neighbors.)

And it is not as though the west has been entirely happy with the results of most of these revolutions either.

[poaw]

I was applying what you pointed out to Manfred's opinon to see if it would stand up to scrutiny. I don't think it does, specifically I don't think their current behavior is caused by anything the President has or hasn't done regardless of if he's "weak" or whatever. At this point I don't think a government pen can run out of ink without someone pointing the blame directly at Obama.

And if acting against a country's best interests was a hostile act that would still make the US the most actively hostile nation on the face of the Earth. The whole point of organizations like the UN is so that someone saying "No" won't become an automatic casus belli for an international West Side Story. The whole point of the permanent seats and the single nation veto is to avoid situations just like what happened in Libya where a bloc of nations got a sanction to dirt nap someone's ally and do donuts in the winner's circle while yelling "Whoop whoop fuck you, got mine". Or do people think that nations like China/Russia would/should just take it?

Flip the situation, how do you think Japan/US would react if Taiwan made some diplomatic faux pas which required one of those resolutions condemning it and China used it as a justification for all-out invasion and a return to de facto mainland rule? Or even more specifically if they intentionally created and supported a movement intended to disrupt their internal stability then asked UN for permission to go in as "peacekeepers". The US would 360 slamdunk that shit in UN then park more tonnage than the entire Chinese Navy twice over right off the coast as a subtle reminder of our feelings on the matter, price of iPods be damned.

[somedude76]

I don't get where "Russian and China are acting aggressive" is coming from. The only "aggresive" things they've done are saying "No" and I think somwhere in the last year or so China bought an aircraft carrier the size of Starbucks parking lot from the 1960s.

You're not paying attention man, with all due respect. Russia is threatening to take preemptive action on missile sheild sites in eastern Europe. They recently ran war games near Alaska. Putin's anti-American rhetoric is in full swing. He's blaming us for all kinds of stupid shit.

The Chinese won't STFU about Taiwan, they're flexing muscle in the South China Sea and claiming all the resources while telling other SE Asian countries to pound sand. China also recently built their fist carrier, so they are up and coming on the Naval front.

They think the West is heading toward decline and their rhetoric and actions reflect their attitude lately.

[jimmychrist]

Carriers are stupid

I even have anecdotal evidence to back that up http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd...ill-die/all/1/

[Manfred Hideous]

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-wants-n...95.html?_esi=1

This is just so they can become closer friends with us. No aggressive pot stirring here. Move along.

[Raketefrau]

Awesome, Obomney can have his own Bay Of Pigs 2.

[Brooks Puuntai]

Isn't it a bit hypocritical for us to criticize other countries for wanting bases abroad, when to my understanding the US has more bases around the world then almost every other country combined.

[Don Peyote]

Romney insulted are country

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...KEX_story.html

It's really bad etiquette to disclose that you met with the head of the SIS

Isn't it a bit hypocritical for us to criticize other countries for wanting bases abroad, when to my understanding the US has more bases around the world then almost every other country combined.

I get this a lot from the US - the rhetoric surrounding Russian missile bases in Eastern Europe is one example ; the US are vehemently against them, yet they have bases dotted around Europe, which isn't even their homeland to "defend".

The US really don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to Russians wanting overseas naval bases, when, not only, like you say, they have more than anyone else (combined!), they have more overseas bases than most countries in the world have naval bases on their own shores.

[somedude76]

Russian's want a base in the Americas? How about Argentina, Honduras, or Venezuela? Cuba? Give me a fucking break!

Oh, and maybe if Putin wasn't such a shady mother fucker it would be as alarming.

[Brooks Puuntai]

Somewhat off topic but if anyone remembers the old "Schoolhouse Rock:I'm Just a Bill" cartoon, there's a new one.

[Raketefrau]

I've got $5 on Rob Portman being Romney's running mate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Portman

Anyone know much about him outside what's on Wikipedia?

[Raketefrau]

Also, Heaven is totally about rich white guys beating up black people:

Attachment 3222

http://thinkprogress.org/election/20...ath/?mobile=nc

[Bill Schwartzski]

"My name is Thomas Paine. I wrote a book that basically said the church was a crock of shit and anyone who believes the resurrection is real needs their head examined. In the nicest possible way of course. I was also a founding father."

edit: holy crap is Romney taking a beating today. even RCP has Obama up, and it's 5+ everywhere else. I guess people notice when you try to use Romneycare as an example of something that would have helped people then turn around and bash Obamacare. LOL @ YOU SENSELESS HUMANS

[Hilmar Keller]

Even Fox had to admit Romney's getting ownzoned. That's pretty tragic.

[Rer]

Was there a debate or something

[Raketefrau]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/09/opinio...html?hpt=hp_c1

OMG shitty pizza is more expensive because some CEO has a scapegoat.

And if you're going to argue that Papa John's is good pizza, you need to start packing your shit and move somewhere where there's pizza worth eating.

[Brooks Puuntai]

Was there a debate or something

Polls released shows Obama with a decent sized lead over Romney. Even Fox's poll has Obama up 9 points over Romney.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1761713.html
Yeah I know lolhuffington.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/09/opinio...html?hpt=hp_c1

OMG shitty pizza is more expensive because some CEO has a scapegoat.

And if you're going to argue that Papa John's is good pizza, you need to start packing your shit and move somewhere where there's pizza worth eating.

Ironically enough I ordered Papa Johns today for the first time in awhile. Only because they had 35% off deal, granted not sure if it was even worth it. However the whole thing smells of being political, Papa Johns while granted they are franchised but still made 1.9bn in revenues in 2010. Yet they are complaining about a $10-30k price tag for health insurance per store.

[Grath]

Romney never had a chance, who knew....oh wait...


Everybody with a pulse knew and has been spouting it over and over and over again because you have the rich white 'fuck you poor, old, minority, environmentally minded and any other socially forward thinking people" guy going up against the HNIC (literally) who's all about the people (at least in speech if not in actual action).

If Romney somehow manages to Eek out a win it'll be a David and Goliath type thing.


Consider it like this, without using google or any other search engine, who ran against Clinton for his second term? Yea, Romney's gonna be remembered like that guy.

[Manfred Hideous]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/09/opinio...html?hpt=hp_c1

OMG shitty pizza is more expensive because some CEO has a scapegoat.

And if you're going to argue that Papa John's is good pizza, you need to start packing your shit and move somewhere where there's pizza worth eating.

He's just telling you what his and millions of businesses are going to do and not inform you. Like his pizza or not (never had it myself) he's at least being up front about it.

Ironically enough I ordered Papa Johns today for the first time in awhile. Only because they had 35% off deal, granted not sure if it was even worth it. However the whole thing smells of being political, Papa Johns while granted they are franchised but still made 1.9bn in revenues in 2010. Yet they are complaining about a $10-30k price tag for health insurance per store.

what he really said:

"We're not supportive of Obamacare, like most businesses in our industry. But our business model and unit economics are about as ideal as you can get for a food company to absorb Obamacare," he said.

He's saying (truthfully) that Pizza stores are not the norm in eateries in that they have a much higher margin then most other places and can absorb the cost. Seriously, that twenty dollar large pizza costs about three bucks to make in materials and maybe a few more in wages and utility/leasing costs. Lots of other food serving establishments operate on a few percentage points of profit and they can ill afford to have money taken from them.


RE the polls: The race hasn't even started, yet. Almost nobody cares until late September anyway. Most people are interested in just living and probably know more about the Olympics than the political race ATM.

Nobody knows what'll happen at this stage.

[Mira Z]

Consider it like this, without using google or any other search engine, who ran against Clinton for his second term? Yea, Romney's gonna be remembered like that guy.

I was going to post how this was terribly unfair on Romney, since Bob Dole was a spectacularly unmemorable politician, but then I actually stopped and thought about it...

[Hilmar Keller]

Consider it like this, without using google or any other search engine, who ran against Clinton for his second term? Yea, Romney's gonna be remembered like that guy.

Yeah, but pre-Lewinski scandal Clinton was absurdly popular even with Conservatives and balanced the budget. By contrast, Obama's rating is in the gutter; a humble contender like Dole would probably hit a home run in this election, but nooooooo, the GOP had to go with Montgomery Burns.

[jimmychrist]

All the other candidates was bat shit ding dong off the scales. Running Bachmann would have turned the GOP into a punchline along with the candidacy. At least this way it's mostly just Romney taking the punches.

[Manfred Hideous]

All the other candidates was bat shit ding dong off the scales. Running Bachmann would have turned the GOP into a punchline along with the candidacy. At least this way it's mostly just Romney taking the punches.

Pretty much this. Santorum, Gingrich, Bachman, Caine, and Perry. JFC they had no real choice. Romney was literally the only known adult in the room.

[Hilmar Keller]

Pretty much this. Santorum, Gingrich, Bachman, Caine, and Perry. JFC they had no real choice. Romney was literally the only known adult in the room.

You forgot about the other Mormon. You know, the reasonable one.

[Manfred Hideous]

You forgot about the other Mormon. You know, the reasonable one.

What I forgot was one of the nuts: Paul.

The average person would say John Who? when you asked about Huntsman. That's why I said Romney was the only known adult. Almost nobody knows who Roemer and Johnson are, either and Johnson is IIRC still running as a Libertarian.

Actually, I may yet vote for Gary Johnson. He's actually not unpalatable to either side on their favorite issues. Socially he's pretty liberal and fiscally he's very budget driven.

[Hilmar Keller]

I would've much preferred to see Huntsman or Paul running against Obama; Paul-Obama debates would be entertaining as hell and the topics of abortion and gay marriage would more or less be off the table (since they more or less agree).

Speaking of which, are there live debates coming up soon? I'm out of the loop overseas.

[Brooks Puuntai]

What I forgot was one of the nuts: Paul.

The average person would say John Who? when you asked about Huntsman. That's why I said Romney was the only known adult. Almost nobody knows who Roemer and Johnson are, either and Johnson is IIRC still running as a Libertarian.

Actually, I may yet vote for Gary Johnson. He's actually not unpalatable to either side on their favorite issues. Socially he's pretty liberal and fiscally he's very budget driven.

Though sadly that's a reflection on US society then anything. People are more fascinated with the more crazy individuals then the normal ones. Take pop culture for example, everyone is focused on people like the Kardashians, Snooky, and Lohan then generally more rational celebs. That transitioned over to politics with people like Herman Cain, Sarah Palin, and to some extent Obama during 07-08. These are all people who really didn't have the work history or credentials to be president. Obama being a junior senator while holding no other elected position has shown he is an amateur when it comes to being president. However in Obama's case he hasn't done quite as bad considering the current political and economic situation.

[Brooks Puuntai]

I would've much preferred to see Huntsman or Paul running against Obama; Paul-Obama debates would be entertaining as hell and the topics of abortion and gay marriage would more or less be off the table (since they more or less agree).

Speaking of which, are there live debates coming up soon? I'm out of the loop overseas.

http://www.2012presidentialelectionn...bate-schedule/

So starting Oct.3.

Edit: I meant for this to be an edit to my previous post but hit reply instead.. My bad.

[Manfred Hideous]

Debate Schedule:
http://www.2012presidentialelectionn...bate-schedule/

@Brooks: I likened Obama to Zaphod Beeblebrox when he was running last time. I feel even more justified in saying that now.

[Phey Onat]

Paul Ryan is Romney's running mate. Now he can lock in those republican voters who were voting for Romney anyways.

[Brooks Puuntai]

Romney just handed Obama a reelection. He is going to get slammed over the Paul Ryan budget.

[Aokisensei]

Dems already have a nice ad of a Ryan look-alike hurling an elderly woman off a cliff.

I'm sure they can add a Mittens look-alike easily enough.

Seriously though, they just opened up the Mediscare can of worms and put the one constituency the GOP is reliably good with - old white people (well really the elderly in general) - in play. Also voters 40-55, who aren't on Medicare/SS yet but would be affected by the Ryan plan.

Seriously though, nuns arecampaigning against Paul Ryan.

[Manfred Hideous]

The veep debates are going to be fun.

I don't think the race has changed that much, though.

[Hilmar Keller]

Paul Ryan is Romney's running mate. Now he can lock in those republican voters who were voting for Romney anyways.

[Brooks Puuntai]

Paul Ryan is Romney's running mate. Now he can lock in those republican voters who were voting for Romney anyways.

Many polls show that the % of independent voters is extremely low, and with how polarized politics and media has become the idea of a conservative democrat or a liberal republican is almost nonexistent So what both parties seem to be doing is solely focusing on rallying their base in order to spur voter turn out. The problem with Paul Ryan is that with his plan he pisses off (old)people say in Florida due to the cuts in medicare and SS which are part of their base. Ryan also calls for the need for deficit reduction however voted during the Bush years on many of the major deficit causing bills. Its like lighting a house on fire then being pissed at the next guy when it burns down. idgi

Also Romney introduced Paul Ryan as the next president of the United States. So I guess they switched spots .

Edit: Undecided or Independent voters I don't remember which one.

[Aurora148]

Biden will probably take an rv and camp outside of Florida's old folks homes to drive the "Ryan wants to take away your medicare" message.

[Hilmar Keller]

Biden will probably take an rv and camp outside of Florida's old folks homes to drive the "Ryan wants to take away your medicare" message.

More likely, Romney will show up and announce that although he hasn't seen many retirement homes he's friends with a lot of landlords.

[Rer]

>Pick a Presidential Candidate that isn't crazy enough for your base.
>Force yourself into choosing a stronger Republican to rally up your base
>Yet also alienate any old person who actually gives a shit about their healthcare

I'm not saying they can't win, but now they have to contend with Democrats making a point of both Romneycare AND the Paul Ryan budget.

[Grim]

http://www.isidewith.com/results/44683775

What the fuck is a Gary Johnson.

[Manfred Hideous]

http://www.isidewith.com/results/44683775

What the fuck is a Gary Johnson.

He's the libertarian and is pretty awesome for a libertarian.

>Pick a Presidential Candidate that isn't crazy enough for your base.
>Force yourself into choosing a stronger Republican to rally up your base
>Yet also alienate any old person who actually gives a shit about their healthcare

I'm not saying they can't win, but now they have to contend with Democrats making a point of both Romneycare AND the Paul Ryan budget.

Balanced against "You didn't build that". I'm not saying Romney will win but I think the veep pick won't make a really big difference in driving people away.

This is politics. His thinking might just have "evolved". Obama's did.

[Aurora148]

A difference is that Romneycare and the Ryan budget actually happened, "You didn't build that" is an attack which relies on the president's words being taken completely out of context and edited.

[Bill Schwartzski]

America: where the party of family values and free market has a corporate no-tax paying overlord for the frontman and a guy who envisions taking away money from one of the largest, most vulnerable classes of our society - the elderly. Brilliant.

It doesn't matter who he gets as his VP as soon as he releases his tax returns and all of America sees the guy paying like 5% a year on billions of dollars, they're going to be pissed.

[Phey Onat]

He's never going to release them. They've decided that the flak they will get for not releasing them is far less than the damage that would be done if he released them. He's played the tax code for years, all legal of course but that just plays right into the message from the democrats of the rich hiding their money so they get taxed at near to nothing.

[Aurora148]

One of the more interesting theories surrounding his tax returns is that he has been underreporting his income to the Mormon Church, and is therefore not fully paying the required 10% tithe. If it was true then the church wouldn't be able to consider him an active member.