Delvolution

**Grath** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by WhisperingTurtle

Im not saying Pl isnt effective but since the nerf you are far more vulnerable to being simply numerically outgunned without supercap effectiveness.

This is true for everybody game wide now. There is a threshold in sov warfare, where if your opponent crosses it, your skill stops being important. Game mechanic changes throughout the years have specifically lowered that threshold, its cool, its no big deal, adaptation to game changes and flexibility is what PL has actually always been good at.

Its probably what we'll always stay good at due to a high concentration of supernerds and the people willing to try anything once fleet compwise.

You can still fight like a Spartan, it just takes less Syrians to overwhelm you, or you do it in Slowcats and give up 90% of your battlefield options.

**Jm24** · 2012-06-29

waaaaaaa waaaaa they are bringing numbers now how will we fight out numbered. Those blobbers

**Jm24** · 2012-06-29

You fight with Falcon, it is known

**Tez** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Rer

Seriously I will sell you my soul if you do a "How To" video.

Honestly my After Effects skills are pretty crap. If I have any talent at all, it's just knowing how to make a video flow well and my only advice for that is to waste five years between high school and college watching movies.

**powers** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Jm24

You fight with Falcon, it is known

Please tell me that was a brasilian from Vera Cruz.

**Wildside** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Grath

This is true for everybody game wide now. There is a threshold in sov warfare, where if your opponent crosses it, your skill stops being important. Game mechanic changes throughout the years have specifically lowered that threshold, its cool, its no big deal, adaptation to game changes and flexibility is what PL has actually always been good at.

Its probably what we'll always stay good at due to a high concentration of supernerds and the people willing to try anything once fleet compwise.

You can still fight like a Spartan, it just takes less Syrians to overwhelm you, or you do it in Slowcats and give up 90% of your battlefield options.

its not the supernerf that hurting us, its clearly the curse of tech:
Makalu Zarya > funny how the amount of tech PL had is inversely proportional to their skill...you guys were a much much better alliance when you had none

**hohum** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Wildside

its not the supernerf that hurting us, its clearly the curse of tech:
Makalu Zarya > funny how the amount of tech PL had is inversely proportional to their skill...you guys were a much much better alliance when you had none

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse

The oil curse strikes in space.

**Lorren Canada** · 2012-06-29

Speaking of propaganda Lieuntant Gan just wrote and posted this on our forums:

http://soundcloud.com/seamusfish/the...of-delve-part1

Apparently parts 2,3 etc. will come out as the story of delve IV unfolds

**Berdennol** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Kick

Anyone else notice that SoCo fleets seem to be lacking numbers?

At this rate it looks like this is going to be a very lopsided war.

Not sure about -A-, but nulli hasn't had an op posted since the movement to 319. What you're seeing flashforms through jabber pings.

I still think the big test will be when both parties form "EVERYONE" for an important timer.

At least I hope it will, Delve 2012 isn't going to live up to expectations otherwise.

**Ivo THE1** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Nicky D

they aren't useless, like you said, we make isk off them
i mean yeah man we should start calling renter ctas, good idea
But I just sayins anyone who thought the two coalitions were numerically equal because someone lumped in SOLAR Citizens as part of SoCo's Delve forces for PR purposes needs to read up a bit.

Well I guess that is the issue for you guys, you have all these extra peeps at your disposal, but make no use of them. Maybe that's exactly what you should do.
I'm not good with isk, or renter pricing. But maybe offer a cheaper renter price for some actual participation within your coalition.. IDK math is hard.

**Crunac Arclight** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Tez

Honestly my After Effects skills are pretty crap. If I have any talent at all, it's just knowing how to make a video flow well and my only advice for that is to invest five years between high school and college watching movies.

Because of quality, I fixed that for you.

**Sath** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Ivo THE1

Well I guess that is the issue for you guys, you have all these extra peeps at your disposal, but make no use of them. Maybe that's exactly what you should do.
I'm not good with isk, or renter pricing. But maybe offer a cheaper renter price for some actual participation within your coalition.. IDK math is hard.

It's more that the kinds of people who are willing to pay isk for the illusion of space-security are rarely the kinds of people who are of any use in a fight.

**Frederick Garrish** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Ivo THE1

Well I guess that is the issue for you guys, you have all these extra peeps at your disposal, but make no use of them. Maybe that's exactly what you should do.
I'm not good with isk, or renter pricing. But maybe offer a cheaper renter price for some actual participation within your coalition.. IDK math is hard.

I know of one nulli renter alliance begging to get in fleets just to fight, no cheaper rent or anything...

Course they don't have much to add but spirit

E: But sometimes that's everything

**hohum** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Ivo THE1

Well I guess that is the issue for you guys, you have all these extra peeps at your disposal, but make no use of them. Maybe that's exactly what you should do.

In a perfect world maybe; however, the southern bloc is terrible at coalition building. They all shoot each other (but not in a good fights kind of way) and there's lots of animosity over stupid shit.

**Max** · 2012-06-29

(3:56:58 AM) announcebot@pleaseignore.com: Hello, overnight TESTies.

Tonight/This morning I would like to share with you some nulli forum pr0n.

Here is a direct rip from the S2N forums. The gent that made this post is known as "MarkusBarak" ingame.

"Well we know they absolutely love there Forum Fu. They take there forum Fu so seriously that they would defend there forums over there own mother. This being said the moment you post anything even remotly against them you get the whole *rable rable rable* Ive posted a video that directly portrays how I view goons/TEST when you post something bad about them... Think Richter!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSZuW...layer_embedded "

INB4 rickrolls and advice animals.

Also, http://i.imgur.com/1OwWG.jpg

It's almost like it really is 2007 again.

That is all.

#### SENT BY - Daquaris to test-social @ Jun 29 2012 07:57:28 EVE Time ####

(4:04:46 AM) announcebot@pleaseignore.com: As promised, worse nulli propoganda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2qHaNU_xds

#### SENT BY - Daquaris to test-social @ Jun 29 2012 08:05:16 EVE Time ####

(4:07:48 AM) announcebot@pleaseignore.com: This is one of the top comments.

http://i.imgur.com/kJwXK.png

#### SENT BY - Dovinian to test-social @ Jun 29 2012 08:08:18 EVE Time ####

(4:08:50 AM) announcebot@pleaseignore.com: If they keep peddling that digital garbage, they might win because we're all dead of brain cancer.

Holy SHIT this is some awful "propaganda".

#### SENT BY - Richter Enderas to test-social @ Jun 29 2012 08:09:20 EVE Time ####

(4:09:01 AM) announcebot@pleaseignore.com: He's not even saying those things!

#### SENT BY - Notchicken to test-social @ Jun 29 2012 08:09:31 EVE Time ####

**WNxWolfy** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by hohum

In a perfect world maybe; however, the southern bloc is terrible at coalition building. They all shoot each other (but not in a good fights kind of way) and there's lots of animosity over stupid shit.

It is known.

**Grogoth** · 2012-06-29

It is known.

**Holdem** · 2012-06-29

this thread should be put in shit posting central

**Doink9731** · 2012-06-29

It is known.

Tyrone Cashmoney · 2012-06-29

this forum should be put in shit posting central

**Jean Leaner** · 2012-06-29

It is known

**Nicky D** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Ivo THE1

Well I guess that is the issue for you guys, you have all these extra peeps at your disposal, but make no use of them. Maybe that's exactly what you should do.
I'm not good with isk, or renter pricing. But maybe offer a cheaper renter price for some actual participation within your coalition.. IDK math is hard.

It's not like there's a big barrier of pr0ness stopping dudes from getting into the south man; renters will never willingly participate in pvp that's why they rent otherwise they'd join one of the shitloads of trial alliances on both sides. Heck, Mittani once told me that "renter alliances don't count as real alliances, that's just the [holding alliance]'s version of a tech moon".

**Ron Mexxico** · 2012-06-29

It is known

**hohum** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Nicky D

It's not like there's a big barrier of pr0ness stopping dudes from getting into the south man; renters will never willingly participate in pvp that's why they rent otherwise they'd join one of the shitloads of trial alliances on both sides. Heck, Mittani once told me that "renter alliances don't count as real alliances, that's just the [holding alliance]'s version of a tech moon".

Renter alliances won't fight because most of them are full of people who really don't understand PVP. In my experience if you offer them guidance and extend them the courtesy of SRP some of them will actually show up to fights. The more fights they show up to the more useful they become. At the end of the day a body is a body and if they can be trained to hit F1 alot and listen to an FC they'll make a noticeable difference.

**Endie** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Vik Reddy

Well it probably won't change the opinions of the majority here, but:

-Passive hardeners can't be capped out (hint for some of the less intellectual people, and you know who you are: void bombs)
-Minus one gyro for additional tank, because we happen to be fighting a blob (who usually have another blob waiting on a titan bridge while they smack about bravery).
-In large enough numbers, it doesn't seem like dps is a problem when we alpha most primaries, except certain people in command ships, who are pre-locked.

Do you have any other questions about the fit?

I have one: how do you feel that it is working out for you so far?

**Jean Leaner** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by hohum

Renter alliances won't fight because most of them are full of people who really don't understand PVP. In my experience if you offer them guidance and extend them the courtesy of SRP some of them will actually show up to fights. The more fights they show up to the more useful they become. At the end of the day a body is a body and if they can be trained to hit F1 alot and listen to an FC they'll make a noticeable difference.

I'm sure you have quite large amounts of experience in convincing large renter alliance to fight in your wars. Please, do go on.

**Don Peyote** · 2012-06-29

Surely if you're fighting a blob, it's better to go for more damage to kill their ships faster, rather than making a futile attempt to tank, when one of their primaries will definitely die in one volley anyway?

**Jugurta** · 2012-06-29

Funny how spergpublords seem to know more about what PL stand for and what old PL "spirit" was more than the people that were actually in PL for years and that make PL.

**Rawr** · 2012-06-29

Renter alliances have no incentive to fight. That pay so that they be more Jewish than Israel without having to contest for it. if someone does kill their retainer than all they need to do is rent from the next guy. The fact that space in the south is all shit anyway means that the retainers will keep taking them back regardless because they need the money.

**Hilmar Keller** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Rawr

Renter alliances have no incentive to fight. That pay so that they be more Jewish than Israel without having to contest for it. if someone does kill their retainer than all they need to do is rent from the next guy. The fact that space in the south is all shit anyway means that the retainers will keep taking them back regardless because they need the money.

This is a rather gross overgeneralization.

Most renters are like this, but not all. A lot rent because they don't have the manpower to keep any established 0.0 sov-holding entity from roflpwning them out of existence. But once they're in, if they get along with their landlords, they're bound to get into PVP at some point. They have no more incentive to fight than anybody in the SoCo or Clusterdemic Coalition Please Swarm.

**Centra** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Grath

Its probably what we'll always stay good at due to a high concentration of supernerds and the people willing to try anything once fleet compwise.

We never tried Trashcats

**Opti** · 2012-06-29

Dearest PL

The finest of Shadoo's invited me onto your mumble to lay waste to the bad guys but richter was there with TEST

where the fuck is the No Chatter channel

mother of god

**Bobby Bobster** · 2012-06-29

I was a shitty renter once in Scalding Pass and it wasn't a case of renters not wanting to help PvP. We were never allowed to join fleets because we were a bunch of shit hi-sec scrublords who were too dangerous to play with people who new what they were doing.

We were full of 2 week old scrubs and spies, so I really don't blame them.

**Dsan** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Centra

We never tried Trashcats

Attachment 3061

What was the Legions then ?
or was that never a concept ?

**Malcanis** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Centra

We never tried Trashcats

Typhoon doctrine of some kind?

**Mumbles** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Centra

We never tried Trashcats

Stop naming all your fleet comps after fucking cats! The enemy is not a litterbox!

**Dysphonia** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by KingOfTheDaves

I was a shitty renter once in Scalding Pass and it wasn't a case of renters not wanting to help PvP. We were never allowed to join fleets because we were a bunch of shit hi-sec scrublords who were too dangerous to play with people who new what they were doing.

We were full of 2 week old scrubs and spies, so I really don't blame them.

So are TEST, doesn't stop us )))))

**Centra** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Mumbles

Stop naming all your fleet comps after fucking cats! The enemy is not a litterbox!

I was going to make a joke about shit and Stain, but it's 6 AM.

**DurrHurrDurr** · 2012-06-29

(8:50:09 AM) shadoo: 12:48:24 Combat Your Oblivion hits Surprise01 <RED>(Nidhoggur), doing 421875.0 damage.
(8:53:02 AM) shadoo: I just warped to 319 undock and DDed a carrier v0v
(8:53:07 AM) shadoo: with no support from us here

**Dysphonia** · 2012-06-29

He only did it to try and one up wrik's tornado fleets.

**Rezorek** · 2012-06-29

319, stuff of legends.

**Dsan** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by DurrHurrDurr

(8:50:09 AM) shadoo: 12:48:24 Combat Your Oblivion hits Surprise01 <RED>(Nidhoggur), doing 421875.0 damage.
(8:53:02 AM) shadoo: I just warped to 319 undock and DDed a carrier v0v
(8:53:07 AM) shadoo: with no support from us here

What goes through a carriers mind.. when a hostile Titan locks you up ?
"LOLOLOL, I'm on station, I'll just dock LOLOL"

No, but really:

**sladislov** · 2012-06-29

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13820049
(15:00:29) [redacted]: I just warped to 319 undock and DDed a carrier v0v

Yes.

**Sath** · 2012-06-29

Why am I not surprised it was a RA carrier?

**Headblast** · 2012-06-29

I said it during the CFC vs. Raiden. war, and I'll say it again: The CFC way of dealing with allies far surpasses that of any former or current leading alliance(s) in the game. Only dealing with renters when there are issues/want isk is limiting the potential enormously.

Also, finally had the chance to watch the video posted earlier in this thread. Holy fuck, that was amazing.

**Mumbles** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by sladislov

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13820049
(15:00:29) [redacted]: I just warped to 319 undock and DDed a carrier v0v

Yes.

RA is giving new meaning to the word terrible.

**Blinky** · 2012-06-29

I actually cringed for all of SoCo, watching that propaganda.

**Endie** · 2012-06-29

Originally Posted by Nicky D

2/3rds of our "30k" coalition are renters and a large part of that are SOLAR and affiliates; not sure how this is surprising since we's fighting 3:1 odds

We chose to nurture allies by sharing our wealth.

You chose to nurture pets by taxing their wealth.

We are happy with the results on both counts.