Alliance Tournament X

**poaw** · 2012-05-25

Originally Posted by Si'ren

Disclaimer: Hydra and Outbreak had no intentions of meta-gaming the tournament bracket if given the same opportunity as last year and really the only reason we were all in one corp on Sisi was because of POS mechanics.

I wish I hadn't just used the pic of Yao Ming laughing yesterday. Would fit in perfect right here.

Gonna say that no one is ever going to believe that. With 2 teams who live in the same hole and practice against one another, you have no reason not to assist each other in the tournament, the further both teams get more pronounced your advantage from having two teams becomes. Years of teams being blatant about manipulating the brackets have allowed people to understand how and why it can be gamed. With those teams around, every shiploss, every match that went to the time limit would be questioned as an attempt to give yourself a more favorable seeding.

The only difference from last year was we wouldn't get to read the super smug rundown on how you managed to pull it all off after it was over.

**Mfume** · 2012-05-25

Yeah, I don't know why they thought they'd get away scot-free from making CCP furiously buttmad.

**pinoyzzz** · 2012-05-25

CCP should just close the test server beginning when tournament rules are announced to through finals day. If you want to test a tourny setup, test it on TQ. None of these problems Hydra/0utbreak being in the same corp would have occurred if they had to test on TQ, since they would have been automatically disqualified by the May 5 deadline rule.

A few years ago (i.e. before AT 6) no one used the test server to test their setups -- people theorycrafted setups and winged-it in the tourny matches. Matches were far more unpredictable, unrefined, and way more fun to watch. The whole idea of using Sisi to endlessly test different variations of setups worth tens of billions of ISK on TQ, but for free on sisi, is pretty far from the purpose of why sisi exists (QA for bugs).

**John Smith** · 2012-05-25

Originally Posted by pinoyzzz

CCP should just close the test server beginning when tournament rules are announced to through finals day. If you want to test a tourny setup, test it on TQ. None of these problems Hydra/0utbreak being in the same corp would have occurred if they had to test on TQ, since they would have been automatically disqualified by the May 5 deadline rule.

A few years ago (i.e. before AT 6) no one used the test server to test their setups -- people theorycrafted setups and winged-it in the tourny matches. Matches were far more unpredictable, unrefined, and way more fun to watch. The whole idea of using Sisi to endlessly test different variations of setups worth tens of billions of ISK on TQ, but for free on sisi, is pretty far from the purpose of why sisi exists (QA for bugs).

PL used SISI from AT4(the first one we entered).

**bobbechk** · 2012-05-25

Originally Posted by pinoyzzz

CCP should just close the test server beginning when tournament rules are announced to through finals day. If you want to test a tourny setup, test it on TQ. None of these problems Hydra/0utbreak being in the same corp would have occurred if they had to test on TQ, since they would have been automatically disqualified by the May 5 deadline rule.

A few years ago (i.e. before AT 6) no one used the test server to test their setups -- people theorycrafted setups and winged-it in the tourny matches. Matches were far more unpredictable, unrefined, and way more fun to watch. The whole idea of using Sisi to endlessly test different variations of setups worth tens of billions of ISK on TQ, but for free on sisi, is pretty far from the purpose of why sisi exists (QA for bugs).

Pretty sure that IF no one was allowed to test setups on Sisi, PL would just do the tests on TQ and give no fucks about the costs

**Vile rat** · 2012-05-25

I'm a little surprised that people are actually trying to equate PL/Sniggwaffe with what 0utbreak/hydra did. I mean the two situations are nothing alike at all.

**pinoyzzz** · 2012-05-25

Originally Posted by bobbechk

Pretty sure that IF no one was allowed to test setups on Sisi, PL would just do the tests on TQ and give no fucks about the costs

Yes, exactly, that would be awesome.

**hattifnatt** · 2012-05-25

and actually log into TQ?

m8...

**bobbechk** · 2012-05-25

Originally Posted by hattifnatt

and actually log into TQ?

m8...

We could hire someone to do it...?

**Le'Blob** · 2012-05-25

Originally Posted by Mfume

Yeah, I don't know why they thought they'd get away scot-free from making CCP furiously buttmad.

Pretty much comes down to this. PL got the longer end of the stick, but had PL and waffles gotten in the top 3 ranks of last years tournie, I'd be surprised if CCP didn't try and come up with ways to headshot them too.

**Grogoth** · 2012-05-25

Our name last year was FREE KARTTOON NOW [FUCCP]

I, for one, am SHOCKED that we didn't get in

Also this was pretty gay for waffles tbh, never once trained with PL due to PL super secrecy - PL couldn't see their shit, and they have been busting their asses for this for about 3 months.

**Vile rat** · 2012-05-25

0utbreak/hydra have a history of colluding in the tournament and they knew they were under a microscope this time, PL+waffles do not. I'm not sure why anybody would ever think the two situations were remotely the same. If PL+waffles did that shit last year you're damn righ CCP would have banned both alliances if they did it AGAIN this year or gave the impression they were going to.

**hattifnatt** · 2012-05-25

actually the difference is that PL and waffles are honest about our relationship while genos are still lying about it even after they got caught

**Goberth Ludwig** · 2012-05-25

I may still be mad about hydra shitting on our cripple B team last year but if CCP wanted them banned they should have just said so from the start.

Ignoring their mails first then giving an answer that turned out to be a lie is just twisting the knife.

**Ron Mexxico** · 2012-05-25

Originally Posted by Le'Blob

Pretty much comes down to this. PL got the longer end of the stick, but had PL and waffles gotten in the top 3 ranks of last years tournie, I'd be surprised if CCP didn't try and come up with ways to headshot them too.

here is where i put a joke about waffles making it past any kind of pre-lim

but grath will get mad and i'm sure i'll get a few PL hate reps so i'll leave it be

**Vile rat** · 2012-05-25

Man the raging on eve-o about this is the best. Really the best.

**Checkbox Poll** · 2012-05-25

waffles got fucked by jersey johnson

(((

**captainktainer** · 2012-05-25

The tears are, in fact, delicious. It's kind of sad, because I know and we know Waffles is sufficiently differentiated from PL in practice that they would be two legitimately different teams, but if I were trying to enforce a general rule, I'd have to make the same decision CCP did given the two-way fluidity between the two alliances.

The fact that HYDRA and Outbreak toed the line pretty hard would be plenty of evidence to disqualify at least one of them. Given that they had made several attempts to contact CCP about it, though, there should have been only one team disqualified - while they were certainly planning shenanigans again, they did ask for guidance from CCP on the matter and did not receive anything good. When confronted about the communications, CCP should have admitted that they had made a mistake.

**TheYeti** · 2012-05-25

First asking ccp if you can train together. Then training together with the team that you made a deal about the finals.
I don't understand how they didn't expect this to backfire on them.

**Si'ren** · 2012-05-25

Originally Posted by Vile rat

I'm a little surprised that people are actually trying to equate PL/Sniggwaffe with what 0utbreak/hydra did. I mean the two situations are nothing alike at all.

I'm sorry but this is just wrong. In AT9 PL/Waffles tried the exact same thing Hydra/OB did but sucked at it.. Members of PL even left the alliance to join Waffles to be on the team.

Edit: If you were referring to us testing together this year then I guess you are right but the reason we do this is because each alliance doesn't have the numbers to field two full teams to test properly, not some hidden collusion and conspiracy to win first and second place again

**Grath** · 2012-05-25

Originally Posted by Si'ren

I'm sorry but this is just wrong. In AT9 PL/Waffles tried the exact same thing Hydra/OB did but sucked at it.. Members of PL even left the alliance to join Waffles to be on the team.

Edit: If you were referring to us testing together this year then I guess you are right but the reason we do this is because each alliance doesn't have the numbers to field two full teams to test properly, not some hidden collusion and conspiracy to win first and second place again

Hi, none of us are stupid enough to believe that you weren't colluding, so please kindly take that last line and stuff it allllllll the way up your ass.

Thanks.

Oh woe is me we didn't have enough people to practice on our own. Funny, a few other teams are having that exact same problem and their solution didn't involve dumping everybody into the same corp and piling them into a wormhole to mass test.

You hung yourselves, end of story, you KNEW CCP was pissed.

You KNEW they put in a rule JUST FOR YOU.

You specifically told them you would be 2 separate teams and then YOU, yourselves, did the exact same thing you did last year.

Now you're trying to be all mopey and sad that they pulled your card, its fucking weak shit, nobody buys it, pack it in.

**John Caffeine** · 2012-05-25

Originally Posted by Grath

Hi, none of us are stupid enough to believe that you weren't colluding, so please kindly take that last line and stuff it allllllll the way up your ass.

Thanks.

Oh woe is me we didn't have enough people to practice on our own. Funny, a few other teams are having that exact same problem and their solution didn't involve dumping everybody into the same corp and piling them into a wormhole to mass test.

You hung yourselves, end of story, you KNEW CCP was pissed.

You KNEW they put in a rule JUST FOR YOU.

You specifically told them you would be 2 separate teams and then YOU, yourselves, did the exact same thing you did last year.

Now you're trying to be all mopey and sad that they pulled your card, its fucking weak shit, nobody buys it, pack it in.

Though I can't think of anyone else who put their dudes into the same corp, they weren't alone about moving into a WH or remote nullsec system for practicing with another alliance.

Most smaller alliances have to in order to practice in any kind of secrecy. And I'm sure a few will this year too.

Obviously Hydra/Outbreak were essentially the same team last year, but CCP could've just banned them on account of what they did in the finals instead of giving some bullshit excuse about them doing the same thing this year just 'cause they're practicing together.

**poaw** · 2012-05-25

Originally Posted by captainktainer

The fact that HYDRA and Outbreak toed the line pretty hard would be plenty of evidence to disqualify at least one of them. Given that they had made several attempts to contact CCP about it, though, there should have been only one team disqualified - while they were certainly planning shenanigans again, they did ask for guidance from CCP on the matter and did not receive anything good. When confronted about the communications, CCP should have admitted that they had made a mistake.

Originally Posted by Goberth Ludwig

I may still be mad about hydra shitting on our cripple B team last year but if CCP wanted them banned they should have just said so from the start.

Ignoring their mails first then giving an answer that turned out to be a lie is just twisting the knife.

Hi,
No, as long as those alliances are not working for the same team, so to
speak. If we find out that these 2 alliances are pretty much the same
people, but created a second alliance to try and stack the deck then both
will be removed.
With kind regards,
Senior GM xxxxxxxx
The EVE Online Customer Support Team

They got a response that was pretty much as clear a communication CCP could send on the issue short of banning both teams. If they had both had their own separate holes, and practiced against someone other than the guys they colluded with last year at some neutral location then they'd have a stronger case. Instead they shared logistics, location, and a pool of pilots after being warned that if CCP thought they were one team fighting as two then they both be removed.

I dunno if they thought that Outbreak not being a new alliance created specifically for AT X would be the AHA! technicality that saw them through the day, but it seems like an open and shut dumpster on this one.

**Mfume** · 2012-05-25

Originally Posted by Si'ren

Disclaimer: Hydra and Outbreak had no intentions of meta-gaming the tournament bracket if given the same opportunity as last year and really the only reason we were all in one corp on Sisi was because of POS mechanics.

Nobody believes you.

**Rer** · 2012-05-25

Sad part is Waffles and PL weren't even doing anything together.

I'd know, Waffles were so desperate for pilots to come help test they asked ME.

If that alone doesn't prove that Waffles were out and alone, I dunno what will.

**Mfume** · 2012-05-25

Originally Posted by Rer

Sad part is Waffles and PL weren't even doing anything together.

That's what kept PL from being banned.

**Grogoth** · 2012-05-26

Fuck I hope garmon is ok :3

**poaw** · 2012-05-26

Neighbors said her weight had risen as high as 380 kilos (835 pounds).

That's just depressing.

**ihaveahelmet** · 2012-05-26

Originally Posted by poaw

That's just depressing.

As in a depression in the landform caused by a heavy object?

**John Smith** · 2012-05-26

Hydra and Outbreak do everything as one team and then crying because they got banned has been hilarious. The fact they couldn't even see it coming, despite doing everything as if they are one team, just makes the whole escapade. Well done fellas, well done, once again you have added entertainment to the Alliance tournament. Looking forward to your entry next year. toodles.

**Elektrea** · 2012-05-26

Originally Posted by Ron Mexxico

here is where i put a joke about waffles making it past any kind of pre-lim

Hey can we get the chill RM back?

Anyways waffe were going to do good this year, they had been practicing a fuck ton already and had a head start on us by far.

**Aurora148** · 2012-05-26

Originally Posted by ihaveahelmet

As in a depression in the landform caused by a heavy object?

last year a 1000lb guy from the UK had Gastric bypass surgery, to perform the surgery the hospital had to reinforce the floor underneath the operating room because otherwise it wouldn't have taken his weight plus a dozen surgical staff and all the equipment.

They also had to transport him via the goods elevator because the normal elevators couldn't take it.

**Bowkers** · 2012-05-26

Guys we're missing the important bit of this whole thing. They never got their shitty alienware computers.

**poaw** · 2012-05-26

While all this drama and the tears that come with it are awesome and all, for next year I hope CCP is a bit more poetic in fucking the teams that do this over. IE, by simply seeding them against each other in the first single elimination round.

**Aerallo** · 2012-05-26

Disqualifying them after they had achieved something would have been juicier.

But this is damn fucking good. Nobody believes you.

**Jovan Geldon** · 2012-05-26

Regardless of the right or wrong of the situation, Darius Johnson/Sreegs really needs a lesson in public relations. It's an emotive issue that people will want to argue about, so letting it happen would be much more sensible than sticking his fat oar in and going "THE DECISION IS FINAL ALSO CRY MORE U MAD?" in every thread.

**ihaveahelmet** · 2012-05-26

Originally Posted by Jovan Geldon

Regardless of the right or wrong of the situation, Darius Johnson/Sreegs really needs a lesson in public relations. It's an emotive issue that people will want to argue about, so letting it happen would be much more sensible than sticking his fat oar in and going "THE DECISION IS FINAL ALSO CRY MORE U MAD?" in every thread.

I think that this is actually the best way to do public relations.

**Velonad** · 2012-05-26

No bullshitting, just a plain and simple "fuck you" to all three alliances, but especially Hydra in this case.

**pinoyzzz** · 2012-05-26

Darius owns. You can tell he's enjoying this

Edit: it keeps getting better.

**n0th** · 2012-05-26

Yeah, Sreegs spergposting is pretty hilarious. Someone should probably screenshot it all for future reference, as they probably are going to censor it by monday.

**pinoyzzz** · 2012-05-26

Originally Posted by n0th

Yeah, Sreegs spergposting is pretty hilarious. Someone should probably screenshot it all for future reference, as they probably are going to censor it by monday.

More like hydra and ex-GBC spergposting and Darius laying the smackdown but ok

**Kanloch** · 2012-05-26

Well they got owned, Sreegs' version of public relations is hilarious.

While not keeping in with the usual archetype of the helpful developer responding to angry posts in a calm manner I think DJ is probably senior enough to get away with it.

**Kitty Vintner** · 2012-05-26

From reading that thread, it seems Hydra/Outbreak weren't colluding: They were just working together to gain a competitive edge over other teams.

wait

**Grath** · 2012-05-26

Man the AT tournament section is currently the best on EVE O without a fucking doubt.

**Si'ren** · 2012-05-26

Originally Posted by Kitty Vintner

From reading that thread, it seems Hydra/Outbreak weren't colluding: They were just working together to gain a competitive edge over other teams.

wait

If by competitive edge you mean have enough people to conduct a 12 v 12 test, then yes.

**Roark Garnet** · 2012-05-26

Dont forget to add :
Being in the same alliance
Sharing all fits and strats
Behaving as a single and unique team

**Kanloch** · 2012-05-26

Originally Posted by Si'ren

If by competitive edge you mean have enough people to conduct a 12 v 12 test, then yes.

If you didn't want to get banned you shouldn't have done the same thing you did last year. vOv

**John Smith** · 2012-05-26

Originally Posted by Si'ren

If by competitive edge you mean have enough people to conduct a 12 v 12 test, then yes.

How are other teams getting around this? It certainly isn't by sharing members between the teams, all their setups and theorycrafting. Hell I'd put money on both your teams being on the same voice comms and chatting about the matches and what's more effective after too. 2 separate teams would not do these things. You would have been limited in your testing or would have had to recruit or merge teams, but then you would have been one team with one single entry or truly separate teams.

**Grath** · 2012-05-26

Originally Posted by Si'ren

If by competitive edge you mean have enough people to conduct a 12 v 12 test, then yes.

If you really wanted to be competitive you could have tested against us, I'm sure we would have been more than happy to help you out considering our past relationship, and we could have done it without you looking like an asshole.

Of course we all know thats not what this is about, this is about you all being buttmad bitches that you couldn't do what you did last year again.

**hattifnatt** · 2012-05-26

if you cant get 12 people for a test how will you get 12 people in a match m8m8

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