Upcoming Changes: Shit that will change the gameplay in Eve Online

[Securitas]

I think what was mentioned before was diminishing-returns timers where if you have 1 guy on grid it takes a really long time, is easily doable in less than an hour with 20 dudes, and peaks around 50. Then sov war is more about the actual fight between two entities regardless of how large they are or whether they have a supercap fleet or not. It also makes grinding undefended space much more easy.

So essentially you fly what best counters the hostiles you're invading instead of needing a supercap fleet or dreadnoughts or whatever to grind through an ihub. Sorry if I'm incoherent; it's 5 am and I just finished an LoTR marathon.

[MpozoY]

Ugh you guys are perpetually stuck on the paradigm of "objectives = shooting structures"

The advantage of a small gang over a blob is that people will fight the small gang. Appropriate blob counters are AOE weapons; problem is, Eve only has bomber bombs and smartbombs, and smartbombs are too underpowered. Better ideas could include:

- A chain lightning type gun that does low DPS, but when it hits a ship it also spreads X% damage to all other ships in a given radius, which then does X% etc

- Fucking anything with splash damage

- A mod like a nos, but sucks shield - and has an AOE effect. Drop an inty into a hostile blob and steal their shield for invincibility.

[Zagdul]

I think what was mentioned before was diminishing-returns timers where if you have 1 guy on grid it takes a really long time, is easily doable in less than an hour with 20 dudes, and peaks around 50. Then sov war is more about the actual fight between two entities regardless of how large they are or whether they have a supercap fleet or not. It also makes grinding undefended space much more easy.

So essentially you fly what best counters the hostiles you're invading instead of needing a supercap fleet or dreadnoughts or whatever to grind through an ihub. Sorry if I'm incoherent; it's 5 am and I just finished an LoTR marathon.

Sorta, the 'peak' can escalate up to thousands of people. Due to after sov levels increasing, so does the resistances of the POCO's. And no, no diminishing return. I hate using diminishing returns on any game mechanic. I think it removes the 'natural' feel by putting false limitations on things to control gameplay.

Points of note:

As you invade a system, if the SOV index is high, so are the resistances of the structures which hold that SOV. In essence, It becomes fortified over time as the sov level increases.

Each POCO has a limit of how many upgrades can be put in it. Maybe 1 of each category or something so that as POCO's get blown up, so do the benefits of holding SOV (jamming/jump bridges/beacons).

As POCOs are destroyed, SOV level decreases so do the resistances.

As POCO's are destroyed, their stront bay decreases in size. This allows for human error and shorter timers towards the end of capping a system.

By the end of an invasion, typically burnout has set in and the cleanup process is happening. Having more EHP to grind is no fun on an abandoned region. I don't think I can name a single, decently sized entitiy in EVE who hasn't been in this position.

It also motivates alliances to fight hard towards the start of an invasion, while giving them opportunity towards the end to potentially get saves in to harass invaders and push fights.

[Manfred Hideous]

You must have not done well in school in terms of reading comprehension.

I've pretty much laid out how to reduce blobs, make harassment of large powerblocks possible and still allow strong alliances to fortify their space over time. All the while, drawing pilots into null to create an environment inviting to roaming gangs, black ops and basically a pvp paradise as well as farms and fields for everyone to enjoy.

So, no, I don't agree with your interpretation of what you've only digested of my words. You should consider going back 2 pages and reading my posts again so that you don't embarrass yourself again by vomiting up only what you wanted to read instead of what I actually wrote.

No need to be all butthurt, Zaggy. I disagree with some of what you said in the walls of text and agree on some of it. I do think you see it from a different perspective since you lead a large alliance with completely different goals and problems. You're deluded if you think any solution presented in this thread will lead to a PVP paradise, though. People are risk averse (including most PVPers). It's pretty much that simple.

[n0th]

Add new null-sec space, without sov, without static resources and without local.

m8 dont know if you have noticed, but there was this Apocrypha expansion in 2009.
And PvP in wormholes has a very special flavor. I for sure dont find it fun to spend night after night collapsing holes, so i can do an ~epic~ 40-min movie with abysmal narration revolving around one actual engagement.

I personally want organized small-medscale gangs (between 5 and 40 duders) to have a reason to actually go out,roam, meet each other and have (semi-)consentual pew. And while a lot of it is player-driven (o7 Curse 2011) it needs some mechanic to catalyze it, or else it easily snowballs down to stagnation. Unfortunately i've yet to see a proposal that might actually accomplish this - p sure that it isnt solved by more timers though.

The whole ~0.0 foodchain~ argument of hard-to-gank ratters inhibiting smallgang pvp is bullshit in my opinion.
I mean you can still camp 10/10s or gank ratters in anoms without awoxing (just go to ROL space or Provi) - making ratters more vulnerable does very little for small-gang engagements that arent outright ganks.

why arent you guys up north? thats where literally all the fights are.

I kinda want to believe, but then i look up your KB and your last related is 35 just Abaddons with NC. blued vs. 100+ CFC Draeks.
We do this kind of PvP every once in a while (to remind ourselves why we're not some sov-holding alliance), but certainly not every week.
Also moving is and noone is even sure how things will pan out after the war is over.

[Kazanir]

The problem is that those mechanics break when there's just not anyone around to defend at that hour, and there just aren't anywhere near enough unique nullsec inhabitants to fill all space in all timezones.

Perhaps that "concord verification timer" could be adjustable just like an RF timer?

Then for the other 20-odd hours of the day you could just ignore gangs as you can today - it would add complexity (and, inevitably, bugs) and still not fix the core issues.

Yeah that Sec said was my idea basically, but you could do something like the hourly verification like the other dude said and then you'd have potentially a lot more action spread out over smaller payouts. The timezone thing isn't really something you can get around -- EVE has reinforcement timers for a reason and it would need farms-and-fields-hacking timers in a similar way. I would probably set it up so the ihub could verify on a 24, 12, or 6 hour schedule (with bounty bonuses for the more-frequent options, since you'd have to defend it more often) and those timers would be visible on a UI element to anyone from the system's sov panel.

More importantly, how will it enable a small gang to do the job better than a larger gang? What goal could you create that would actually favor a gang of 20 or less against a gang of 300?

This is a separate consideration that revolves around what Mpozoy said, the game only has a limited number of AOE effects and, thus, there is no penalty to blobbing nearly anything unless you're up against Vee or that one Russian bomber FC. :P The game does need more of this but it is separate from the "shit to fight over" consideration.

[Kazanir]

I would really love to see wormhole-based nullsec raiders living in holes with static nullsec connections and popping out to try to raid their current static connection each day. If only there were stuff to raid and if only living in a wormhole weren't so unbearable in certain particulars.

[Iratus]

I would really love to see wormhole-based nullsec raiders living in holes with static nullsec connections and popping out to try to raid their current static connection each day. If only there were stuff to raid and if only living in a wormhole weren't so unbearable in certain particulars.

Yeah, that's pretty much the point of my idea. Part of the reasons that make wspace a pain in the ass as a base to attack nullsec from is the uncertainity of your hole colapsing while you fight, and the lack of consistency of routes. You can't do much damage to a nullsec entity if you only get a hole to their space once every week if you are lucky.

A wormhole-like space with static, non-mass-limmited gates and capital movement would cover that gameplay with ease, IMO.

[Don Peyote]

I would really love to see wormhole-based nullsec raiders living in holes with static nullsec connections and popping out to try to raid their current static connection each day. If only there were stuff to raid and if only living in a wormhole weren't so unbearable in certain particulars.

I keep telling myself that I shall one day create the greatest Khalasar that space has ever seen, and based out of our static C6, we shall raid the pitiful sheep people of nullsec for their women and horses :black101:

A second tier of Wormhole might be nice - think small, self-contained static mini-regions, several constellations large, with permanent connections to one another, but fluctuating connections to regular wormhole space, and by extension to K-space - a sort of "parallel universe", connected to wormholes in exactly the same manner that normal space is.

This space could be more small-gang oriented (I'm not sure how that'd work, I am the archetypal "ideas guy"), with incentives for its settlement proportionate to the amount of risk you're going through to set up there. There would ideally be capturable stations, but not the ability to build them, and either severe limitations on capitals, or none at all (this would make PoS bashing a royal pain in the arse though, so maybe just no supers, akin to regular W-space?).

Damn you Iratus for stealing my thunder, I've had this in the post reply box for ten minutes

EDIT : I don't know what you'd have to do for it to fit in with EVE Lore, but fuck EVE Lore - just say it was a failed Jovian experiment (or even just make it Jovian space) or some BS I don't care

[Tsubutai]

I would really love to see wormhole-based nullsec raiders living in holes with static nullsec connections and popping out to try to raid their current static connection each day. If only there were stuff to raid and if only living in a wormhole weren't so unbearable in certain particulars.

There are quite a few corps that do/have done exactly that, assuming you're willing to define 'raid' as 'annoy the locals in some way and then beat up on whatever home defence fleet forms up'.

[Iratus]

I keep telling myself that I shall one day create the greatest Khalasar that space has ever seen, and based out of our static C6, we shall raid the pitiful sheep people of nullsec for their women and horses :black101:

A second tier of Wormhole might be nice - think small, self-contained static mini-regions, several constellations large, with permanent connections to one another, but fluctuating connections to regular wormhole space, and by extension to K-space - a sort of "parallel universe", connected to wormholes in exactly the same manner that normal space is.

This space could be more small-gang oriented (I'm not sure how that'd work, I am the archetypal "ideas guy"), with incentives for its settlement proportionate to the amount of risk you're going through to set up there. There would ideally be capturable stations, but not the ability to build them, and either severe limitations on capitals, or none at all (this would make PoS bashing a royal pain in the arse though, so maybe just no supers, akin to regular W-space?).

Damn you Iratus for stealing my thunder, I've had this in the post reply box for ten minutes

EDIT : I don't know what you'd have to do for it to fit in with EVE Lore, but fuck EVE Lore - just say it was a failed Jovian experiment (or even just make it Jovian space) or some BS I don't care

The way to keep it small-gang oriented would be easy. Incursion-like pve where blobs get smaller rewards, and no local coupled with static gates. The lack of local intel makes it so bombers (the best anti-blob available) are incredibly more dangerous to a huge fleet. Blobs become almost blind, lumbering beasts with a "here I am!" sign above them. Easy to track, easy to spot, easy to bomb. Also, allowing black ops battleships to cyno people around that new space would go a long way towards that.

I'd add static (or semi-static, where a "wormholes 2.0" constelation's wormholes almost always link to the same area in k-space) connections to nullsec, too, so this small gangs can strike the sheep people for resources.

Regarding the lore... just add an "omg everyone is scrambling to figure out what's going on" paragraph somewhere and be done with it.

[Della Monk]

I would probably set it up so the ihub could verify on a 24, 12, or 6 hour schedule (with bounty bonuses for the more-frequent options, since you'd have to defend it more often) and those timers would be visible on a UI element to anyone from the system's sov panel.

No, you're missing the point that a 24 hour timer would have to be defended for 24 damn consecutive hours. That should be the one that nets you a bonus if you're ballsy enough to choose it. Whereas with the hourly rate you're only forced to stay frosty until the tick. You don't want to penalize people for not being active 23/7, you want to reward people for playing together.

[Don Peyote]

The way to keep it small-gang oriented would be easy. Incursion-like pve where blobs get smaller rewards, and no local coupled with static gates. The lack of local intel makes it so bombers (the best anti-blob available) are incredibly more dangerous to a huge fleet. Blobs become almost blind, lumbering beasts with a "here I am!" sign above them. Easy to track, easy to spot, easy to bomb. Also, allowing black ops battleships to cyno people around that new space would go a long way towards that.

I'd add static (or semi-static, where a "wormholes 2.0" constelation's wormholes almost always link to the same area in k-space) connections to nullsec, too, so this small gangs can strike the sheep people for resources.

Regarding the lore... just add an "omg everyone is scrambling to figure out what's going on" paragraph somewhere and be done with it.

The "semi-static" idea sounds good, and might even remove the need for a wormhole connection, but you'd have to look at disincentivising established nullsec entities from becoming King Shits of this new space too, as it's aimed at small gangs of duders, not a large amount of small gangs of duders broken into chunks so that they can abuse the limitation mechanics in place. People who live in the new space would ideally be more akin to DarkSide than a sov-holding alliance - essentially, "babby's first conquerable region", where smaller gangs of more "elite" people can still have "meaningful" PvP

This being considered, blobbing is a natural step of escalation, and the trick with preventing it is to use a stick, rather than a carrot, to keep blobs out. If it'll make winning fights easier, then they'll no doubt blob and flood the area with duders, even if it impedes rewards. Make it a fucking chore to move large numbers of people in and out of this "wormhole 2.0" space, so that people have to come in small groups, and it'll work out better.

[Kazanir]

No, you're missing the point that a 24 hour timer would have to be defended for 24 damn consecutive hours. That should be the one that nets you a bonus if you're ballsy enough to choose it. Whereas with the hourly rate you're only forced to stay frosty until the tick. You don't want to penalize people for not being active 23/7, you want to reward people for playing together.

No my original idea was, "every X hours, there is a 2-hour window where hostiles can try to raid/hack the ihub for bounty loot." That's what I'm referring to - if you only want to defend your ratting income during your prime TZ you should get less than if you commit to protecting the ihub more regularly or whatever. I dunno, obviously the idea needs work but the PRINCIPLE of the idea is that nullsec should be very profitable and it should be much easier to fuck with that profit (including take-home pay for the raiding parties if they win) than it is to fuck with a moon.

- Raid ihubs on a timer for ratting ISK
- Raid pocos on a timer for exported PI loot and taxes
- Raid POS ore/moongoo silos to steal moongoo
- Raid stations to steal ISK from corp wallets or random people's hangars
- I'm sure there is more but you get the gist of it

Obviously some of these ideas are more hardcore than others but the point is that the driving mechanic of EVE is that you have to defend your shit or it gets blown up and then your other shit gets taken. EVE needs more of this mechanic on all scales, not just the moon/sov scale. Right now unless I own a moon there are very limited avenues by which anyone in EVE can affect me no matter what I choose to be doing, and blueballing my aggressors and going AFK is almost always the right solution for me.

[hellkyte]

So apparently they are adding faction/deadspace/officer mods to the market. Which is pretty sweet. I would think that this would drop the prices of all of them, on the other hand I think there's a lot of players who don't realize how cheap a lot of faction stuff is so when they see it on the market it will drive up demand a bit. Either way I fucking love it because I hate trying to figure out prices histories with contracts.

[Scotch]

People seem to woefully over-estimate how smart Eve players are.

[StevieTopSiders]

So apparently they are adding faction/deadspace/officer mods to the market. Which is pretty sweet. I would think that this would drop the prices of all of them, on the other hand I think there's a lot of players who don't realize how cheap a lot of faction stuff is so when they see it on the market it will drive up demand a bit. Either way I fucking love it because I hate trying to figure out prices histories with contracts.

I think this will put downwards pressure on prices, but I wish they would consolidate a shitton of mods and stuff before they do this.

Take Adaptive Nano Plating, for example. There are: 9 faction varieties, 9 deadspace varieties, and 14 officer varieties.

Before they add every one of those to the market, I think they need to simplify some things so that we don't have an additional 32 ANP varieties, a fair amount of which have identical stats to others. vOv

[StevieTopSiders]

Fuckit, I'm bored.

The following faction ANP's have this 17.5% resists across the board: Imperial Navy, True Sansha, Khanid Navy, Ammatar Navy, and Dark Blood.

These have 15.36%: Domination, Shadow Serpentis, Republic Fleet, Federation Navy.

All of the deadspace C-types provide 19.5625%, B-types 21.625%, and A-types 23.6875%.

For officer: the 19% resists are provided by: Brokara, Brynn, Tairei, and Mizuro; 21% by Raysere, Selynne, Tuvan; 23% by Ahremen, Gotan, Setele, Vizan; 25% by Chelm, Cormack, Draclira.

So, basically we're adding 32 modules to the market that have 6 different levels of resists.

[Della Monk]

No my original idea was, "every X hours, there is a 2-hour window where hostiles can try to raid/hack the ihub for bounty loot." That's what I'm referring to - if you only want to defend your ratting income during your prime TZ you should get less than if you commit to protecting the ihub more regularly or whatever. I dunno, obviously the idea needs work but the PRINCIPLE of the idea is that nullsec should be very profitable and it should be much easier to fuck with that profit (including take-home pay for the raiding parties if they win) than it is to fuck with a moon.

- Raid ihubs on a timer for ratting ISK
- Raid pocos on a timer for exported PI loot and taxes
- Raid POS ore/moongoo silos to steal moongoo
- Raid stations to steal ISK from corp wallets or random people's hangars
- I'm sure there is more but you get the gist of it

Obviously some of these ideas are more hardcore than others but the point is that the driving mechanic of EVE is that you have to defend your shit or it gets blown up and then your other shit gets taken. EVE needs more of this mechanic on all scales, not just the moon/sov scale. Right now unless I own a moon there are very limited avenues by which anyone in EVE can affect me no matter what I choose to be doing, and blueballing my aggressors and going AFK is almost always the right solution for me.

Ahh, so there are limited windows of vulnerablity which scale reward by how often they are. I like that.
And it doesn't have to be all shooting, have a number of hacking ticks that need to be won, each of which broadcasts to the constellation or something when won, and which can be reduced in difficulty with damage.

[Grath]

Edit: Err, I should specify that question as why should I go into nullsec to make money.

Nothing, but not everybody can do what you do, so you have your place in the eco system, and theres nothing thats ever going to prompt you out there for financial reasons. Nothing, even if nullsec was wort 5 times what it is an hour, so that every newbie can buy gtc's after an hours labor in 0.0, if the rats rained isk, would make you shoot them.

You don't like it, and you won't like it, you don't NEED to put yourself in that position.


The same that bob the dick builder is perfectly happy sitting in empire making a million off of each BS he builds so he builds 100 a day just sitting in a station running minerals back and forth.


Nothing will ever make you want to go out there and do that for your means to survive. You've posted exactly that.



The act of ratting in 0.0 safely out of whack where balance is concerned, and tying that argument to the financial gain of the act of ratting is non starter since they are two separate issues. If you think financially that 0.0's rewards are less than ideal, great, I don't disagree. But thats not whats at question, whats at question is how critically limiting local is to the dynamic of the game in its current constant all seeing eye form.

Its funny to see people argue about how its fair for there to be no local in wormholes because there's no gates.


Those people that live in wormholes, AHARM and the like, that actually live in the wormhole, know you're inside minutes after you're there. They can judge by the wormhole how much has passed through it, and perhaps some kind of recent traffic counter on a gate would help, like this gate recently processed xxxtons of ships in the last x minutes. Regardless, those people live in a system, they patrol and are active in their single system to the point that they know when you move around.

[Agathor]

Well, lets not ignore the huge social aspect. Wanting to take part in big fleet battles and hang around on TS usually leads you to a nullsec corp.

[tgr]

The act of ratting in 0.0 safely out of whack where balance is concerned, and tying that argument to the financial gain of the act of ratting is non starter since they are two separate issues. If you think financially that 0.0's rewards are less than ideal, great, I don't disagree. But thats not whats at question, whats at question is how critically limiting local is to the dynamic of the game in its current constant all seeing eye form.

Nope. If the most you could make in hisec was, say, 50m/h doing missions or incursions, no matter how pimped out your ride was, and you could make 150m/h doing something in nullsec, you would see a lot more people flock to nullsec. This would mean more idiots who aren't paying attention to the ~perfect intel~.

Hell, I'm even kind of contemplating taking up mining again, now that highends are actually not retarded to mine.

Well, lets not ignore the huge social aspect. Wanting to take part in big fleet battles and hang around on TS usually leads you to a nullsec corp.

We're not talking about big fleet battles. Being in big fleet battles doesn't exclude just staying in hisec for making isk. You know this.

[Teh Ashen]

Well, lets not ignore the huge social aspect. Wanting to take part in big fleet battles and hang around on TS usually leads you to a nullsec corp.

Sometimes I wake up with an urge to hear DBRB tell me stories while I play transformice. But then again; who hasn't.

[Grath]

Well, lets not ignore the huge social aspect. Wanting to take part in big fleet battles and hang around on TS usually leads you to a nullsec corp.

Yea I'm not, but he asked what would make him go out and make money.

The answer is nothing, TGR goes out to 0.0 to socialize with his friends, not for his financial prosperity, nothing they do to 0.0 will really make him shoot the red '+' in space.

[tgr]

Yea I'm not, but he asked what would make him go out and make money.

The answer is nothing, TGR goes out to 0.0 to socialize with his friends, not for his financial prosperity, nothing they do to 0.0 will really make him shoot the red '+' in space.

Funny how you focus on just "shooting red crosses", when I said specifically this in my response to you:

Hell, I'm even kind of contemplating taking up mining again, now that highends are actually not retarded to mine.

Or are you saying that miners aren't targets for roams, too?

[Mfume]

I kinda want to believe, but then i look up your KB and your last related is 35 just Abaddons with NC. blued vs. 100+ CFC Draeks.
We do this kind of PvP every once in a while (to remind ourselves why we're not some sov-holding alliance), but certainly not every week.

you guys still get around 30-50 in fleet, right? that was about the size of our fleet that night and most nights.

Also moving is and noone is even sure how things will pan out after the war is over.

you really can't go wrong living right next to active and populous alliances.

[Grath]

Or are you saying that miners aren't targets for roams, too?

sure they are, but if you've earned a titan from market trading mining is scrub league money. Unless the mineral prices go up about another 400% I don't see you even bothering.

[tgr]

sure they are, but if you've earned a titan from market trading mining is scrub league money. Unless the mineral prices go up about another 400% I don't see you even bothering.

I'm telling you, point blank, that I am considering starting to mine given the price of various highends now, let alone if ABC mining continue to rise in profitability. How much clearer must I say this before you'll actually catch on?

While I've earned a titan from market trading, if mining yielded a nice return as well, then it's something which I could do while going balls deep in the latest investment scheme which'll yield a nice return. Just to point out how balls deep I go on some of these things, I sold my freighter and orca to be able to purchase more nocx. None of my chars (apart from my jita char) currently has more than 5000 isk to his name, and the only reason that char has more available to him is because of the cost of setting up buy/sell orders. Everything else is locked down in nocx-related activities. Everything.

[Zagdul]

I'm telling you, point blank, that I am considering starting to mine given the price of various highends now, let alone if ABC mining continue to rise in profitability. How much clearer must I say this before you'll actually catch on?

While I've earned a titan from market trading, if mining yielded a nice return as well, then it's something which I could do while going balls deep in the latest investment scheme which'll yield a nice return. Just to point out how balls deep I go on some of these things, I sold my freighter and orca to be able to purchase more nocx. None of my chars (apart from my jita char) currently has more than 5000 isk to his name, and the only reason that char has more available to him is because of the cost of setting up buy/sell orders. Everything else is locked down in nocx-related activities. Everything.

Pretty much this.

Our spreadsheet wizards are telling me that null sec isk per hour for mining has skyrocketed. I've been finishing up some industrial skills to prepare for it simply because having the hidden belts in upgraded systems provides for high yield of minerals that are in high demand.

[Malcanis]

How if only CCP were to boost nullsec industry so that it wasn't a steaming pile of fresh cat turds compared to the facilities available in empire, we might see some kind of self-sustaining cycle here.

[Manfred Hideous]

Pretty much this.

Our spreadsheet wizards are telling me that null sec isk per hour for mining has skyrocketed. I've been finishing up some industrial skills to prepare for it simply because having the hidden belts in upgraded systems provides for high yield of minerals that are in high demand.

And with the upcoming changes, Mining in a covetor will be much easier. I'm going to train up my main (he'll only need to level from 3 to 4) so that I can dualbox an exhumer and a barge on days I feel like being bored.

[Iratus]

How if only CCP were to boost nullsec industry so that it wasn't a steaming pile of fresh cat turds compared to the facilities available in empire, we might see some kind of self-sustaining cycle here.

I have an idea of how to do this, while at once providing the fabled "small gang objectives" and "raidable targets" people want.

There should be an anchorable POS-like structure with factory lines, labs, and refineries. The difference between a POS and this would be that you can dock a limmited ammount of ships in it (think, a freigter, an industrial, and spare change for shuttles), and that if you blow it up, anything that was being manufactured/researched/refined in there drops. If this are balanced to be personal or corp-level assets, and easily anchorable pretty much anywhere in null, they provide a boost to the stupidly bad nullsec manufacturing, while the hability to actually get drops from them gives a juicy target for roaming gangs. Leave outoposts as they are, because they'll be providing safety in exchange for limmited and higlhy demanded services. If your factory blows up while you are docked in it, your ship pops out with moderate damage (simmulating an "OMG I just flew trough the wall!" experience). This gives you a chance to scape if you are fast, but if you are pinned down you become part of the loot.

I won't play with numbers because , but giving them a decent number of factory lines would solve the "a single higsec system has more factories than a whole null region" issue. If every nullbear that wants to build stuff can anchor a factory that he can use exclusively, you'll see much more manufacturing being done.

[foolishbabysitter]

*Kissing my jesus piece

[penifSMASH]

I'm telling you, point blank, that I am considering starting to mine given the price of various highends now, let alone if ABC mining continue to rise in profitability. How much clearer must I say this before you'll actually catch on?

While I've earned a titan from market trading, if mining yielded a nice return as well, then it's something which I could do while going balls deep in the latest investment scheme which'll yield a nice return. Just to point out how balls deep I go on some of these things, I sold my freighter and orca to be able to purchase more nocx. None of my chars (apart from my jita char) currently has more than 5000 isk to his name, and the only reason that char has more available to him is because of the cost of setting up buy/sell orders. Everything else is locked down in nocx-related activities. Everything.

hahahah

GoonFleet 2012: Let's pew those roids! \o/

[Manfred Hideous]

I think the game would be more interesting if people had a reason to PvE in groups for safety, to put scouts on gates to watch for enemy movement, to have defence gangs activly going after people roaming their region.



I used find people in nullsec all the time, but by the time I'm in warp to whatever anomaly seems likely to have someone in it they're already warping out. I'm not sure what gypsy magic the elite roamers use to find people, but to me it takes some five seconds to load grid and least 10-20 seconds to run my ship scanner and figure out in which anomaly the dude might be in. That's 15-25 seconds before I'm even starting to warp to the anomaly, and probably at least another 30 seconds before I land. Also; Mining by yourself should be dangerous, or there's no reason beyond orca bonuses to do mining OPs with defence wings and scouts in surrounding systems etc.

Pretty much this. I started right before Apocrypha and we used to PVE in groups. Mining fleets were a serious affair since it was a rare day when you found a hidden belt. Most mining was done in the regular belts.

[MpozoY]

Alternately if you actually want to fight instead of fumblefucking around trying to catch ratters, you just ping boat, or vee, or whoever is the FC or diplo of wherever you're headed, so they can ping their guys in advance and have a fight ready by the time you get there - people actually log into null if there's going to be a battle. No more bitching about 'man, they made me sit around while they formed up', then. Some of them are even ~elite~ enough that they'll limit the size of their defense fleet to keep from grossly overwhelming yours. But of course that assumes you actually think you can win a standup fight against PvP-fit ships.

[Mfume]

warping to stn at range and bubbling undock is like eve equivalent of challenging someone to a duel.

[Kevin]

Confirmed, i have seen Vee ping for honoure fights and put a cap on fleet numbers.

IRC almost ALWAYS fight, too. Granted this generally consists of bombing themselves but they're undocked.

edit: Accidental sniper

[Vinata]

Removed all of the discussion about local to its own thread. Please take local discussion to that thread.

[Endie]

hahahah

GoonFleet 2012: Let's pew those roids! \o/

You didn't last in goonswarm for very long but mining was huge in the early days.

[Endie]

warping to stn at range and bubbling undock is like eve equivalent of challenging someone to a duel.

Technically it's the equivalent of going to someone's house, spreading oil all around the porch and sitting 150 yards downrange of their front door with a Barret .50 cal and shouting a challenge.

Which is an entirely rational way to fight if you ask me.

[Matos]

Those people that live in wormholes, AHARM and the like, that actually live in the wormhole, know you're inside minutes after you're there. They can judge by the wormhole how much has passed through it, and perhaps some kind of recent traffic counter on a gate would help, like this gate recently processed xxxtons of ships in the last x minutes. Regardless, those people live in a system, they patrol and are active in their single system to the point that they know when you move around.

Usually you know about that because of dscan spamming though. If you have 5+ people randomly mashing dscan you can surprisingly often spot a cloaky before they can actually cloak.
For non-cloaked stuff its hard to be not noticed anyway.

I'm telling you, point blank, that I am considering starting to mine given the price of various highends now, let alone if ABC mining continue to rise in profitability. How much clearer must I say this before you'll actually catch on?

Are you planning to multibox? Because imo thats the only case were mining as a profit oriented activity does make sense (When done by humans at least).

While I've earned a titan from market trading, if mining yielded a nice return as well, then it's something which I could do while going balls deep in the latest investment scheme which'll yield a nice return. Just to point out how balls deep I go on some of these things, I sold my freighter and orca to be able to purchase more nocx. None of my chars (apart from my jita char) currently has more than 5000 isk to his name, and the only reason that char has more available to him is because of the cost of setting up buy/sell orders. Everything else is locked down in nocx-related activities. Everything.

Assuming you bought that stuff before the massive price spike the high ends were a guaranteed bet. No need to brag how brave you are investing into it
(If your point is that you are now too poor to do other stuff until you sell your nocx again then not sure what that has to do with Mining being profitable)

[tgr]

Assuming you bought that stuff before the massive price spike the high ends were a guaranteed bet. No need to brag how brave you are investing into it
(If your point is that you are now too poor to do other stuff until you sell your nocx again then not sure what that has to do with Mining being profitable)

It had absolutely nothing to do with bragging or bravery, I didn't go in until a few days before they removed the pax amarria cap. The point was merely that I was actually starting to consider starting to mine again, despite what Grath claims. It may be "scrub money", but it's still a nice income stream.

[Manfred Hideous]

So, when I was listening to Grath and co on the shit on eve podcast, I thought I heard mention of a change to how sec status affects people's ability to get into highsec space. Is this a confirmed upcoming change and does anyone have the dev blog link?

[Prodnovick]

So, when I was listening to Grath and co on the shit on eve podcast, I thought I heard mention of a change to how sec status affects people's ability to get into highsec space. Is this a confirmed upcoming change and does anyone have the dev blog link?

Not sure if there is a blog yet but you should check out the fanfest presentation about what they have planned.

[Grath]

but it's still a nice income stream.

Somebody did some number crunching yesterday, currently with a proper set up gang you can pull nearly 80m/hr mining, if you focus on high ends. I'd say its doing ok as an income stream.

[tgr]

Somebody did some number crunching yesterday, currently with a proper set up gang you can pull nearly 80m/hr mining, if you focus on high ends. I'd say its doing ok as an income stream.

So, still think it needs to be increased by 400% before I'll consider it?

[Grath]

So, still think it needs to be increased by 400% before I'll consider it?

I think for about 3 months mining has the potential to be one of the highest profit activities for the line member, because I'm under the belief that the reality of the drone regions removal will go far beyond what people expect. The flood of people you're looking for to come to 0.0 to make money?

Yea its gona be miners, because a hulk will likely end up generating 100m/h before this is all said and done.

Pubbies crawling out of the woodwork.

[Grim]

Pubbies crawling out of the woodwork.

The 99%

[Nemes]

Pubbies crawling out of the woodwork.

Project Turkey Shoot is go.