If Darkside are complaining about not getting fights you know something is wrong.
If Darkside are complaining about not getting fights you know something is wrong.
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
I was originally of the same opinion as n0th, then we moved to an area basically sandwiched between two coalitions that regularly roam, along with several minor NPC null alliances to generate off-hours content. Complaining that roaming is dead because of xxxx and never doing it yourself just leads to less fights for increasingly fewer roaming entities.Originally Posted by Securitas
Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.
tl;dr dont stop just because its not fun?
There are going to be good days and bad days. Roams don't always produce, everyone knows that.
Nullsec is a tricky place, I'd say it's even harder to balance it over highsec primarily because it's where the majority of the volatility takes place (and is supposed to take place). There has always been a huge struggle between those who want security for their space castles vs. those who want pew pew and destruction.
I personally don't like the security (directly and indirectly) that was added to sov in Dominion. Multiple layers of dumb-fire timing is just beyond retarded. This does nothing more than produce more who has the larger ships or who has more ships fights along with an extended period of siege which heavily favors the defender in a type of space that is, my interpretation anyway, supposed to be highly volatile. While I do have that belief, I'm also of the belief that it can't be anymore volatile than it is because the rewards don't seem to equal out the other side of the equation, apart from moon-goo which should be removed altogether.
that and move to where fights happen, yeah, pretty much.
Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.
Grath
you claiming that roaming will suddenly be all fun just doesn't make sense. It will just turn into: we just killed a ratter and our 5 man roam is now being camped in by a 40 man police force who can't catch you cause will run to save. Now we just wait for someone else in the area to be killed so the police force will run to there so we can kill another drake that's too retarded to watch intel. You will still have major area's of space where no one lives and the population hubs will just blob the living shit out of you. Not to mention the fact you just moved the whole unfun 200 jumps with blueballs everywhere to the space police side as you will just run and hide if they show up.
I tend to agree with mfume that is more an matter of people not wanting to lose stuff and only want to engage when they know they win. The whole problem of roaming isn't the fact that there is nothing to shoot. It has to do with if you roam with 4 guys. The other group brings 20. If you bring 20 the other group brings 50. Not the lack of targets.
Oh god damn I missed this gem.
I completely agree, why do you think Grath is up in arms about the lack of people to shoot in null sec? All the dudes find less risk and better rewards goin' nuts with empire incursions and mission running. It's far more rewarding and much less risk. No reason to grind your isk in null sec.
Right now there are people in the north because the alliances have tech and can support their pilot's replacement programs in full and then some. We're capable of giving no fucks about losing billions a month in ships therefore the grunts spend less time grinding away at bullshit isk vs. reward time sinks in null and can just pvp to their hearts content.
I keep logging in for some reason, I blame the bad puns.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Seriously even AAA comes up here all the time, maybe it's just the South that's fucked
I told them they'd miss us
well it did look like you were agreeig w/Zagdul's stance on this earlier but on re-reading I see that you were talking more about the roaming stuff. My bad.But the ratting being 99% risk free, I still generally agree with that. The caveat being that the ratter isn't a drooling retard. And there are some great retard salt-licks out there. 6VDT may be one of my favorite systems in EvE for that reason, my guess is that the group you got to escalate was pretty damned stupid as well.
High sec mission running is worse then incursions, full stop. Its worse then anom running in 0.0 so i rly cant understand why people keep bringing it up as something which is broken in high sec.
Did you write this first using morse code? STOP Your personal preference of 'how I rank each isk making activity in eve' is irrelevant. STOP It is broken because you can nearly make the same amount of isk per hour doing that as anything in null sec. STOP Yet the risk involved in mission running is far less than any activity in null.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Full stop = period in the UK.
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
I'll never understand the Queen's English.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Bloody hell.
Sec is our local queens expert.
i should have included the caveat "as long as the ratter is an actual human being", if it's a bot, gl hf, etc.
Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.
Right now the mining changes are a step in the right direction.
They've in essence buffed null sec mining as the need for more dudes mining roids in null sec a necessity. If you make it so that the space is impossible to mine in by doing retarded shit like removing local and making intel impossible, those dudes will never move there.
A roaming gang's target wont exist because the, by nature, risk averse bear won't want to try null sec. However, if my alliance can attract miners to come out to our space by providing them a semi safe environment by having home defense to chase around gangs, it'll bring content for everyone.
balance the shit out.
Edit: In order for there to be a risk in null sec, the sharks need bait. Attract the bait and there's content for everyone.
VFK never forget
“Isn't it funny how the mood can be ruined so quickly by just one busted condom”
/flamesuit
I still liked the idea of POS's on planets for Sov.
Use POCO's.
This fixes many faction warfare questions and adds the ability that if DUST is successful, they can potentially tie in an element of meaningful griefing here.
IMO, they went too far with dominion, meeting half way with the pos warfare with poco warfare could work for some very interesting elements. Furthermore, limit the amount of upgrades that can be installed into a POCO. Systems with more planets become more valuable. Sov levels determine the resistances of the poco. Level 0 = 0% resists, Level 5 and they go up to 70% incrementally per level making higher level sov more fortified. Lower level sov becomes more fluid.
Abandoned, unused sov should be punished with diminished levels. Dust could be used to where lowering the resists on a poco would be a potential outcome of a sov holding alliance's decision to ignore dust.
Puting Tesla as your avatar picture doesnt make you smarter or right on that matter. Dont just take everything people say for granted, try high sec mission running, 0.0 ratting, running anoms, 0.0 missions and then form your own opinion.
Are POCO's those things people anchor at planets for whatever you get off of them?
I suppose you could but it just seemed like the easiest and less-coding-involved option was allowing POS's to be anchored on planets and only planet-anchored POS's tick Sov.
I completely agree that Dominion went too far, I could bring up the multi page post about it and proposed changes on these very forums but I ended up coming to the conclusion that Dominion was a horrible iteration on Sov and needed to be reverted. The cost increase didn't do anything to reduce the size of empires but made it easier for large empires to hold their ground and push out smaller empires because of the multiple layers of fire-and-forget timers on large HP structures. It allowed the defenders/attackers to concentrate their efforts on single timers for an entire system and far to much time for either side to plan for and gain support for their actions. Furthermore, one success upon the part of the defender effectively erased the progress of the attacker thus resetting the siege to another week long.
There are just so many things I found that were contrary to the original designs of the system (or so I thought) that it felt like the Matari engineers sold CCP their duct tape.
Privately Owned Custom Office
They have a relatively low EHP where a small gang of 20-30 dudes could reinforce it (without resistances) in about 30 minutes. That means, at sov V with 75 resists, trying to reinforce it would require caps/dreads or a competent fleet. You have a window of 24 hours to respond to it, but you set it like an ihub where you chose your window. So, short RF timer, less EHP and a nice way to sway the balance of a system.
Honestly, the single structure fights fail in my opinion. There needs to be more objectives for a system. I also think that there should be a benefit to having sov V. Furthermore, if you're able to knock 1-2 of them out of a system, potentially having that knock the sov level down thus lowering the resistances of the others. This would solve the 'fuck it, we'll blue ball them till they go away'.
If you pull that card, we can take your system from you with little effort.
Most importantly... Remove stations from the sov grind. Cause fuck that.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again (in fact I'll second Quesa): I think they should add a POS-like structure to planets, but don't give it any offensive or defensive capabilities whatsoever. Keep the POS timing thing, though, I think human error should play a bigger factor in war than it does now with the timer +- 3 hours.
I hate to be the one to tell you this good sir, but it seems you're retarded.
You can do 90-120m an hour with highsec missions fairly easily. 6.0+ faction standing and blitz the good missions/decline the bad ones using a machariel.
These types of structure is where I would begin the separation of space into two components: Ownership and Functionality. The former is where, if you want a system to switch from one entity to another, requires the large fleet warfare we all have come to love so dearly. The latter is where the small gang can have a huge annoyance impact upon what can and cannot be done in that space.
Simply put, the ability to communicate via any in-game means (EVE-Voice, Chat, EVEmail) is tied to the existence of a structure who's functionality can be disrupted through electronic attacks. Disrupt the structure and any intra/inter system communications are severed. "But that removes local"...not exactly true. It removes the local chat..the text portion. Another structure in system provides IFF (Identify Friend or Foe). This is where you see the number of pilots in local and their relationship to you. Disrupt the functioning of this structure and you then lose the ability to see how many are in a system and how they relate to you. Just to add a twist, the IFF structure is blind to Covert Ops Cloaking Devices.
I wont go into the mechanics of how you disrupt these structures or return them to operation as that is more suited for the Serious Discussion board.
I can get on board with this. But I still think that it should start easy to take sov and as you get higher levels, it gets harder.
e:Heh, even put it so as the poc's deminish, the sov levels + upgrades do too. So if you're able to knock out Sov 3, you knock out jump bridges and jammers.
e2: after a POCO is destroyed, the stront capacity of all POCO's in the system drop by 20%.
e3: The more I think of my last edit, the more I like it. You flip a system in 3 days, but as the three days go on, you could have a small, 40 man fleet without much issue just melting the sov down.
I too believe that the best way to improve the game in nullsec and put more ships in space to shoot at is to make it even shittier for anyone trying to live there.
The only thing I can think of even lousier than shooting structures is shooting structures that don't even give you some sort of shooting-back minigame. Oh, and rapping that same structure after reds are repelled / don't show.
If you absolutely must deal with uncontrolled, configurable structures, forget shooting, just use the "unloaded on grid and within x kilometers counts down a timer" mechanic from the alliance tournaments.
FA has 18 stations and 57 Sov systems for about 2000 characters. Now, I'm going to ask this question KNOWING that currently nullsec is broken for ISK generation. Do you need 57 systems and 18 stations? Goonswarm (with 4x your numbers) has 42 stations and 116 systems - so perhaps you could, you know, do with less systems to pay for? I know that the current/old-school method of thought is that you have to hold all of a region, or all of the good truesec systems in a region, or something along those lines, but (oh god RL comparison) a business doesn't rent out an entire office building if they only need one floor, it's called a waste of money. Perhaps FA could be getting by with fewer systems and less cost to the alliance?
Nullsec needs reasons to condense more players in fewer systems, for security of the players and to create better conflict. One of the ways that can be done (in a painful, forced manner) is to increase the cost of sovereignty so that alliances don't spread more than they need to or can afford to. I (and others) have gone down this rat-hole before with how this could be achieved, but we aren't CCP, so it's pointless to go there again, but if it weren't broken you wouldn't need 57 systems and the 20 billion/mo. ISK bill that they bring.
You hold or blue the space you do for strategic (jump range / checkpoint) reasons, nothing short of doing the map will or can change this, unless you literally crank taxes up to the point where the entire region is uninhabitable. Player density is low because nullsec isn't good enough to bring more people out of highsec, which raising costs / taxes isn't going to help with.
The South is the best example of this, vast swaths "held" by absentee landlords because it's just not worth fighting for. Crank taxes and it'll just be abandoned and empty.
Perhaps that "concord verification timer" could be adjustable just like an RF timer?
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
This is why I keep my corp in low sec & FW too be honest and only use Sov null sec for quick gank roams or go to NPC null if looking for small gang fights. Null sec is mainly broken because most of null sec is just one big carebear orgy fest. Too many blues and far too easy for groups to hold far too much space, even if it's actually useless to them. Holding sov it null sec should have a drastically increasing ISk factor once you have over say 10 systems and it should go to even a more extreme if those systems have stations.
Then for the other 20-odd hours of the day you could just ignore gangs as you can today - it would add complexity (and, inevitably, bugs) and still not fix the core issues.
Right now the best way for a roamer to get a fight (where "fight" means something even-ish, since everyone swears that's what they're after, and not jumping clueless indies on gates) is to contact the defending FC and let them know you're coming. Maybe what we really need is a gang matchmaker?
Or just have it verify hourly. When there are lots of people ratting, there's lots of loot to be had, but also more potential resistance. In the wee hours of the morning you can steal some bot's lunch money, but that's about it.
K(awaii)ugu(u)tsumen
GSF, GSF2, GSF3, GSF4, etc.
Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.
There is no MMO designer on the planet that would even suggest making it impossible, for players in the game to communicate with one another. All an MMO is, is an expensive 3D IRC client that contains mini games.
Your suggestion would be a designer's resignation letter.
mirc best irc
What he said. Someone's gotta have an elegant solution for this somewhere
The elegance of solutions depends on what you consider a "small gang". It should be bigger than a "let's kill a few ratters" gang (5 people?), but smaller than a "let's get rid of them" fleet (more than 50?).
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/hChYV.png[/IMG]
"Every rifter counts friend" - VR
More importantly, how will it enable a small gang to do the job better than a larger gang? What goal could you create that would actually favor a gang of 20 or less against a gang of 300?
Yes, that is a vital consideration. Personally, I'd enjoy something that could be accomplished by a gang of 20 pilots in under half an hour, roughly
The limiting factor would be the sheer amount of objectives. Several smaller "pick up fleets" throughout the day may be favored over one large 300 man fleet that tries to blitz through a bunch of objectives in one go.
The only way I can think of would be making the objective to actively become more difficult the more people on grid/system. That, however, is far from elegant, and still allows blobs to just split up and hit every objective at once, or to stand guard just outside of the field to jump in at a moments notice. Anything that can be killed with 20 people can be killed faster with 200.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/hChYV.png[/IMG]
"Every rifter counts friend" - VR
Nothing because there aren't mechanics in game that prevent blobbing aside from bombers. So activities may be set up to work for small (10-20) gangs but those activities don't have a pilot restriction so a fleet of 500 can just split up into fleets of 100 to complete 5 objectives.
That was one of the hardest problems in coming up with a solution (when I put the effort into a multipage suggestion post about Dom sov) was that any objective you created forismall gangs to do in the sov system was then easier for a larger group to counter than it is in the current sov iteration. There was alot of call for activity based sov, like pirates and ore mined to determine the sov level but thinking about going out for Sov CTA - Get your Raven rightly don't appeal to alot of people - however that may change with the mineral price change.
Who knows, the sov system is going to be the hardest thing to balance? because of so many factors.
I think nullsec should be left to the blobs. Just make another area of space where small gangs have things to do. Add new null-sec space, without sov, without static resources and without local. Make an area where black-ops are actually useful. Blobs here would be less than optimal because they'd be easy to track, easy to avoid, and easy to bomb away with a well placed covert drop. Forget about structure-based ownership, hell, forget about ownership of space! Just add an activity counter (showing both PvP and PvE stats) to give the e-peeners something to point on a map and say "hey, that's us!".
Leave nullsec to the huge space empires that amass armies of warm bodies and fight node-crashing battles. Of course, structure shooting needs work, and there should obviously be some farms and fields to burn, but space empires and wulfpax are irreconciliable, and as both should have a place in the game, both should have a homeland of sorts.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/hChYV.png[/IMG]
"Every rifter counts friend" - VR
Yes, and we occupy / farm near every system we hold. There might be 1-2 systems which are completely worthless (gas moons only and on a pipe) which we don't utilize and are held for strategic purposes.
So basically, you prefer to turn it into highsec and war dec each other?
You're in a big pants alliance/coalition. Strategic objectives and massive fights are what you look for. I prefer flying in fleets of 10 to 12 people and I'd like to get back into tooling around by myself. I guess you could say the mechanics you and I look for are different in large part because we don't play the same Eve?
You must have not done well in school in terms of reading comprehension.
I've pretty much laid out how to reduce blobs, make harassment of large powerblocks possible and still allow strong alliances to fortify their space over time. All the while, drawing pilots into null to create an environment inviting to roaming gangs, black ops and basically a pvp paradise as well as farms and fields for everyone to enjoy.
So, no, I don't agree with your interpretation of what you've only digested of my words. You should consider going back 2 pages and reading my posts again so that you don't embarrass yourself again by vomiting up only what you wanted to read instead of what I actually wrote.
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