Please support this

**Vinata** · 2012-05-11

I think rats in 0.0 haven't made sense to me for a long time. So I made a post about it in the CSM's Assembly Hall.. I know it isn't related to the PvP that our site loves so much, but I think it'll help the game out. Please give it a like and comment on it.

**Grogoth** · 2012-05-11

Posted for you bro, hope it helps

**Vinata** · 2012-05-11

Thanks Grogoth.

**pinoyzzz** · 2012-05-11

I would post to support it if I was subbed, fuck the haters.

**Brooks Puuntai** · 2012-05-11

The idea seems to be going well.

**Vinata** · 2012-05-11

I am shocked that PvPers aren't supporting a PvE idea.

**Grogoth** · 2012-05-11

That idea probably benefits "PVPers" more than anyone else, as it affects nullsec.

The point is, your idea is ridiculously shit, so let's dissect it a bit;

1) Small roaming pirate gangs. They travel from system to system, checking out belts and when they find something they tackle and kill it. Defense fleets can form up to destroy them, and it'll also kill bots. Who doesn't love it when a bot dies?

lolwut

2) Mining ops. Pirates need to mine too I guess. Have them have mining ops, complete with defense fleets. After a certain amount of mining done, they all warp off. It gives roaming gangs something to kill when they can't find any players, and can probably be lucrative. You've already got hauler spawns - maybe there should be a reason those haulers are chilling out in a belt.

if our alliance doesn't mine, why in the fuck would the rats mine?

3) Shooting structures or something. No wait, don't do this as it means repairing structures and that isn't fun. Ignore this.

THANKS FOR POSTING

4) Let rats in the belts warp to fights that are happening in their system. They're pirates! Pirates love blowing things up, right?

oh man, great idea, that is what we need - more lag

5) Thunderdomes - Every now and then you could encounter a belt where pirates are blowing each other up because they're so bored of just hanging out in a belt all day. Make them blow up each other's wrecks too. That way players don't profit from the pirates having fun.

yeah, pirates that kill themselves and kill their wrecks, man, that adds a lot to the gameplay experience

6) Smack talk - I dunno this idea is probably dumb but maybe if they taunted players they were shooting at? "Yarr, we've got you now!"

fyp

7) Give most frigate and cruiser rats the ability to tackle. This is another thing that'll kill bots, and it'll also give roaming gangs (the player kind) chances to kill players who aren't catching on to the tackling thing. Such as bots!

EXCELLENT IDEA, except it already mostly exists in non-caldari space

GREAT THREAD VINATA, THANKS FOR POSTING

**Vinata** · 2012-05-11

Thanks for the criticism. I have taken it into account and edited the post.

**Securitas** · 2012-05-11

There's definitely changes I would prefer to this but it's not a horrible idea. I supported you.

**Vinata** · 2012-05-11

Thank you Securitas. I don't expect it to take priority over almost anything for most people.

**Brooks Puuntai** · 2012-05-11

The core of the idea is good, making NPCs and the events surrounding them more dynamic. Though some of the ideas seem to be more for the immersion factor then game play reasons.

Really CCP just needs to quit being pussies and add a form of sleeper AI to 0.0 NPCs. That would shake things up a bit. Though to add to your idea, you could have rats randomly call in back up while your fighting them. Hot dropping NPCs would be comical as hell.

**xutech** · 2012-05-11

I have posted my support.

**Don Peyote** · 2012-05-11

Heart's in the right place. Not sure about your suggestions, but the current thing doesn't really make sense "oh yeah hey let's just the three of us chill here and wait for well-fitted capsuleer to kill us k"

**jimmychrist** · 2012-05-11

NPC's scramming more often would go a long way towards catching ratters

**Mr Coloredshirt** · 2012-05-11

just join faction warfare and kill other actual players for an LP reward.

**Elise Randolph** · 2012-05-15

On the one hand I think the idea is neat, or at least the general concept is. In the ideal Eve world alliance level isk would flow from the bottom up instead of the top down, which essentially means there needs to be more PvE /things/. While NPC AI changes could be construed as in line with this, beltratting is one of the lower rungs of PvE; anomalies are way more popular. So while I agree that PvE needs love, I'd rather have some hip and fly replacement for 0.0 beltratting instead of augmenting it.

**Richter Belmont** · 2012-05-16

Ratting is too unintuitive. Bumped it up.

**Mfume** · 2012-05-17

I remember running ninja-plexing gangs into SOLAR-controlled Geminate. It was kinda cool and I wish there was more reason to do stuff like that (i.e. something a minor step down from incursions in terms of difficulty, but slightly more difficult and guaranteed payout compared to normal escalations).

Vinata's ideas are mostly bad.

**Mr Coloredshirt** · 2012-05-18

Originally Posted by Richter Belmont

Ratting is too unintuitive. Bumped it up.

Unintuitive?

**Manfred Hideous** · 2012-05-19

I'd like to see the rats get sleeper AI with much higher bounties per rat. They'd need their spawn numbers cut some (or remain about as heavy hitting as they are now) to make it worth the bother. It would certainly be less boring than scoop drones - get aggro - launch and attack with drones - stare at rats exploding - rinse/repeat.

**Gyncognito** · 2012-05-21

There's alot of great ideas on how to make npc's better. All such ideas are flawed almost from the start. The problem is that all of these ideas attempt the impossible....making npcs behave more like humans. NPC's are not a substitute for humans. I recognize NPC's were once a necessary evil. I think we're passed that point in eve's life cycle.

Eve pve cannot be saved, however it fills a gap. The gap must be narrowed or even closed. A better world is one without the need for npcs. The beginning is to identify what roles npc's play and finding ways shift those risk/rewards onto player based activity.

Notice a trend in the FW overhaul? People are being rewarded for killing less npcs and more players. This is 100% the direction eve needs to go.

**Mfume** · 2012-05-23

Originally Posted by Gyncognito

Notice a trend in the FW overhaul? People are being rewarded for killing less npcs and more players. This is 100% the direction eve needs to go.

The amount of LP they get for most kills is minuscule compared to how much they get for "plexing" which is pushing a button and orbitting while perma-tanking rats.

**Securitas** · 2012-05-23

Originally Posted by Mfume

The amount of LP they get for most kills is minuscule compared to how much they get for "plexing" which is pushing a button and orbitting while perma-tanking rats.

Not anymore.

**Mfume** · 2012-05-23

Originally Posted by Securitas

Not anymore.

Have you even looked that formula for LP payouts?

Destroying an Abaddon fitted with tech 2 mods: gained LP = ( 196m ISK – 161m ISK + 46m ISK + 0 ) / 10000 = 8100 LP (previous system would have paid 500 LP)
Destroying a Machariel fitted with tech 2 mods: gained LP = (1.170m ISK – 95m ISK + 40m ISK + 0 ) / 10000 = 111500 LP (previous system would have paid 750 LP)
Destroying a Providence with 1 b full of cargo: gained LP = (1115m ISK – 839m ISK + 0 + 1000m ISK ) / 10000 = 127600 LP (previous system would have paid 2000 LP)
Destroying a Punisher with tech 1 fitting: gained LP = (450k ISK – 312k ISK + 100k ISK + 0) / 10000 = around 24 LP (previous system would have paid 25 LP)
Destroying a Punisher with tech 2 fitting: gained LP = (450k ISK – 312k ISK + 7.8m ISK +) / 10000 = around 794 LP (previous system would have paid 25 LP)

These are all solo kills btw, otherwise it's spread around everyone on the mail who is in your fleet.

Meanwhile for plexing, you can score an easy 10K every 10 mins or so by hitting up minors solo in a Dram. Hmm, which is realistically sustainable: pushing a button and orbiting for 10 mins in a bog-standard Dram fit or solo killing an Abaddon? Of course, this isn't even accounting for the fact that most ships flown in FW are not Abaddons, but random inties, T1 cruisers, AFs, etc. and so the payout is just plain crap unless you find some retard who flies nothing but Machs and habitually welps right into you while you're solo.

**Quesa** · 2012-05-23

So, what you are saying is that I need a FW alt?

**John Caffeine** · 2012-05-23

Originally Posted by Quesa

So, what you are saying is that I need a FW alt?

Seeing as you'll probably be getting the items from fw LP stores for a quarter of the price of anywhere else; yes.

Minmatar militia already has 50% price reduction, will probably reach 75% within too long. Which basicly makes all other non-pirate/incursion LP practicly worthless if the fw LP volume gets high enough.

**Quesa** · 2012-05-23

Is FW pretty active? Last time I was in it it seemed pretty stale.

**Della Monk** · 2012-05-24

Originally Posted by Quesa

Is FW pretty active? Last time I was in it it seemed pretty stale.

They just spent the expansion on it and the faction warriors managed to make most deadly system repeatedly over the last couple of weeks

**StevieTopSiders** · 2012-09-17

I, too, have made a proposal.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default...44&find=unread

Please support.

**Don Peyote** · 2012-09-17

Originally Posted by StevieTopSiders

I, too, have made a proposal.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default...44&find=unread

Please support.

"This thread. Remove it. Along with the OP."

Well that's not very nice... Finiks, please have a word with this man

**ihaveahelmet** · 2012-09-17

Originally Posted by Don Peyote

Finiks, please have a word with this man

Yes, please do. Congratulate him and tell him to carry on.

**Grim** · 2012-09-17

ECM is fine. The problem is that CCP needs to add a new targetting mode for when you are jammed. Just because you cant lock doesnt mean you shouldnt be able to click in space and fire like a madman.

**Arrador** · 2012-09-17

And or Buff the shit out of ECCM.

**true** · 2012-09-17

ITT Vinata attempts to make a bad MMO™ even worse.

(Oh god never did I thought that it's actually possible)

**Quesa** · 2012-09-17

I'm still in favor of:

Removing racial jammers and go with strait multispecs with a buff to multispec range.
Jammers now stack instead of acting like a separate module.
If you are jammed, you lose a % of any offensive module. These modules will be random

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