Fucking hell.
Just went on a deathroam and literally couldn't find anyone to fight. Intentionally warped the fleet into a cyno trap, couldn't get Init to finish the job. Ran into riverini and couldn't get him to 1v1 at the sun. Really? My e-hounoure feels... sullied. I figured he was such a big man that... well, you know.
Its really bad when you want to try to find reds to die to, and end up running a rifterdome instead because no one will come out to play.
AWOX the CFC, you'll be allowed into PIZZA.Originally Posted by Zagdul
Our mentor program is the best, 100%.
The real question here is what came first: elite pvp or the blob?!
sperg came first
what alliance you in brah?Fucking hell.
Just went on a deathroam and literally couldn't find anyone to fight. Intentionally warped the fleet into a cyno trap, couldn't get Init to finish the job. Ran into riverini and couldn't get him to 1v1 at the sun. Really? My e-hounoure feels... sullied. I figured he was such a big man that... well, you know.
Its really bad when you want to try to find reds to die to, and end up running a rifterdome instead because no one will come out to play.
Ron Mexxico - Broski North
Helios Black > not mad ron
Why can't we all just get along?
Twitter: @WidotVenetianT - RIP Vile Rat.
Probably some small independent pvp corp
Because, I mean it would be hilariously dumb if someone in a gigantic nullsec powerbloc whined about not getting engagements
you're right. who am i kidding?
beff: you should check out cs-z for fights you'll for sure get your small rifter gang a fight
Ron Mexxico - Broski North
Helios Black > not mad ron
You need to perform posting seppuku. Seriously. Fuck your noise.
Tell rico to stop bossing me around
Actually fuck that I haven't shot a red cross in 3 weeks. Feels good man.
So we (the CFC) went back to IRC space last night in a drake fleet after skirmishing with BL. over in NC. land. In fact, we went back to the site of this week's titan abortion festivities and shot their new tower for a bit in hopes of getting the IRC plex to respawn. It did - but we weren't quit as lucky this time. Numbers-wise we actually *shocker* fought outnumbered and outshipped 80 vs 100, and Drakes vs... well I'll list their fleet comp in a second.
Both sides were fairly equal on logi w/ IRC choosing to activate their tempest/maelstrom/drake/tier 3 BC/hurricane/scimi w/ token rokh doctrine with us in MWD drakes/scimis (and just as a side note, the onerios with us was picked up as a donation from an NC. pilot earlier in the roam). Unfortunetly the IRC fleet was a decent counter to our drakes so we spent a solid hour warping around, killing stragglers while they probed down some of our top-notch logi pilots who apparently thought they could simply logoff in system shortly after shooting the POS. Eventually, our FC decided to call it a night and we jumped into their camp with the intention of ending things one way or another.
The results are here: http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?brid=6256
We were able to knock out the logi and do a number on the tempests and various support boats, but without a whole lot of scimi's left the maelstroms were able to steadily pick off our drakes. Additionally the decision to try and take and Bobbi Attwell for the sixth time in 24 hours proved to be a mistake
In other news, Tenal continues to acquiesce while every entity in New Eden roams Branch and Tenal in search of fights (with the noted exception of RaidenDOT who are nowhere to be found). I suppose they read the notice (courtesy of Sharon Tate and Menas).
The bad thing is Razor's naming the stations are just as bad.
and in other news.... FAO RDN dot
http://propaganda.eve-razor.com/Shar...tice_final.jpg
The best part was "shameful and unforgivable association with suspected RMT criminals". I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's pretty funny comming from an alliance with Vuk in it.
++++++++ I could plus rep for ever. Spot on.
read the thread, well, as well as someone with adhd can, seriously. But I did think of this song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPqrTaVXJhI
Grath needs to chill. We'll disbaned eventually and Join PL. or go to Curse
So, no organized northwest vs southeast, then? With TrojanMan as ~the puppetmaster~ of the south.
Congrats, you got the joke...or maybe not. Take cookie
well unless you guys go south it wont happen, there no alliance in the south there got the stamina to deploy for more then 30 days, so your pretty safe until the internal drama starts, and that can take a long time
I don't think people protest it as much as realize how much it sucks. At some point, it's a game. As other people have said, I don't want to be forced to join a fleet when I don't want to, or be woken up at 4 am when I don't want to, and when I do want to play I don't want to be excluded because I haven't been playing as long as other people. With a weeks worth of training, you can join literally any sub-cap fleet in the CFC. It may be in a rifter, maller or brobird, but you can still go and it's still fun.
Yes, a lot of the CFC's success revolves around the numbers it can bring to a fight. But those numbers aren't forced or extorted in any way. Jabber broadcast goes up, and we get five fleets going because people want to do it; not because they are forced to. Those numbers also revolve around corporations like Dreddit and Goonwaffe who have huge communities to recruit from, adore their newbies, and provide a massive amount of support for them. It makes people want to keep playing, and it makes them want to keep playing in the CFC. Additionally, there is something to be said about managing that many people, getting them into organized comms and command, and uniform fleet doctrines.
The CFC is only going to get stronger and stronger, not just because it now controls a huge amount of in game resources, but they have the most access to the most valuable resource in eve; people. And they are by far the best in the game at cultivating that resource. I'd love to see what % of new players who stayed after say...2 months, are in CFC alliances, and how many people have only ever been in their current Alliance.
And honestly, I just can't see the goons being satisfied and letting themselves rot on tech and ratting territory. They'll find something for us to do.
psst this is why you diedSo we (the CFC) went back to IRC space last night in a drake fleet after skirmishing with BL. over in NC. land. In fact, we went back to the site of this week's titan abortion festivities and shot their new tower for a bit in hopes of getting the IRC plex to respawn. It did - but we weren't quit as lucky this time. Numbers-wise we actually *shocker* fought outnumbered and outshipped 80 vs 100, and Drakes vs... well I'll list their fleet comp in a second.
Both sides were fairly equal on logi w/ IRC choosing to activate their tempest/maelstrom/drake/tier 3 BC/hurricane/scimi w/ token rokh doctrine with us in MWD drakes/scimis (and just as a side note, the onerios with us was picked up as a donation from an NC. pilot earlier in the roam). Unfortunetly the IRC fleet was a decent counter to our drakes so we spent a solid hour warping around, killing stragglers while they probed down some of our top-notch logi pilots who apparently thought they could simply logoff in system shortly after shooting the POS. Eventually, our FC decided to call it a night and we jumped into their camp with the intention of ending things one way or another.
The results are here: http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?brid=6256
We were able to knock out the logi and do a number on the tempests and various support boats, but without a whole lot of scimi's left the maelstroms were able to steadily pick off our drakes. Additionally the decision to try and take and Bobbi Attwell for the sixth time in 24 hours proved to be a mistake
In other news, Tenal continues to acquiesce while every entity in New Eden roams Branch and Tenal in search of fights (with the noted exception of RaidenDOT who are nowhere to be found). I suppose they read the notice (courtesy of Sharon Tate and Menas).
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12955576
dbrb the great or go home
Not again, anyway.
Grath in 2011: "You cowardly spineless faggots should get down on your knees and suck PL's cock for giving you the chance to do something remarkable when we drop 30 or 40 supercaps on your 50 man battlecruiser gang"
Grath in 2012: "So now we start the long wait where nothing happens in EVE because like the fat kid in front of the birthday cake you didn't just know when to shut your mouth and stop eating"
PL 2012: Still full of shit.
What they do is no different from trolling noobs to undock their "HD" grabbag fleet into your kiting nanofleet at optimal, they just do it on a grand and gamewide scale.
It isn't impossible at all, it just requires some intelligent game design from CCP (asking too much perhaps!). Fact is that today game mechanics favour, if not positively encourage blobbing.
This is made so much easier by how small the Eve universe has become; it is trivial to move thousands of players across the map to engage on a timer 5+ regions away and have them safely back in bed in their home space the day after (if not sooner). Population density, ubiquity of assets such as carriers & jump freighters, JB's, networks of Titans, clone jumping and stations in virtually every 0.0 system have all contributed to this.
In addition, there is literally nothing which an alliance leaves at risk by being away from home (regardless of how long); anything of worth which is attacked generates the same reff timers which gives more than enough time to move those same thousands of players back in good time to defend it. It may be annoying for the defender but it's hardly a big problem (especially when there are thousands of them to begin with); more often than not any attacker gives up due to the sheer pointlessness of the actions they are taking, particularly so when the infrastructure attacked is simply timed to come out whilst they are asleep or at work.
If we really want to have a more dynamic environment that doesn't reward blobbing then we need to make it harder to move thousands of players on whim, and put in place mechanics which make going on big campaigns far from home a real risk/reward decision; i.e. if I am significantly far away from my home space, leaving it completely undefended, an attacker should be able to raze it to the ground or inflict serious damage before I am able to get back and defend. This gives real consequences to my actions and opens the door for many more interesting conflicts and political interaction. This doesn't stop large coalitions forming or scale back on large fights and nor should it, but makes those kinds of actions a more considered decision.
If we keep thinking within the constraints of the current limited imagination system based on reff timers then yes, there will never be a solution to blobbing and this makes a poorer game experience for everyone. Nobody goes on safari happy to see herds of Antelope, they also want to see Lions.
Yeah, and we've already said what that something is going to be on multiple occasions:
Fuck with Empire.
After the Jita burning, there's a couple other ideas in the chute to make life a living hell in empire. With the anomaly changes and forsaken hubs being so damn good now, there's plenty of space for the current CFC coalition members. Taking space with nobody (competent) lined up to actually live in it just results in the White Noise Branch and Raiden Tenal. And with regards to the ever-growing blob, the CFC has actually whittled down alliances the last few months: BDEAL, ESG, The Forsaken have all ceased to exist in the coalition. Granted, I'm sure most of BDEAL and ESG just spread around inside the CFC but the main point is that failing alliances get taken behind the woodshed and shot. There's not a Mostly Harmless zombie alliance taking up space in the CFC.
Yup, the key is the incentives and disincentives to blobbing, not cheap and arbitrary mechanics.
While it sounds like a hilarious nirvana to not have reinforcement timers on vital stuff, you'll quickly find that if you think people whined about how having "little HP on structures" made it hilariously easy for, say, CFC to faceroll smaller alliances out of nullsec, just imagine how it'd be with no timers at all.
Oh dear, this small euro timezone-alliance weren't logged in when the russian/australians/chinese/american timezone-alliance rolled over their entire space in supercaps? Oh well, so sad.
Fuck. Do want!
Would be terribly fucking awesome.
All your stuff is stuck in these stations now? I feel terrible, I really do.
And is the CFC going to stay in some worthless shit-ass region? Because if you don't then the small pubbie alliance can just take their space right back after you're done facerolling.
Also: it's not like you can't faceroll small alliances right now. It just takes a few extra days.
You mean, all your stuff is now asploded because stations now blow up on the first timer?
Oh dealie me, so solly.
Actually, please do this. We can burn the universe clockwise and when we get back to deklein we can finally quit this terrible game.
Edit With no timers we can do it in a week. How fucking cool would that be.
Well I made a point about the limited-imagination system we have now based solely on timers and any solution wouldn't simply be the complete removal of timers per se; I would actually hope for a complete overhaul of the entire system with completely new mechanics. All it requires is some imagination. In your example though, assuming timers were removed, yes TZ rampages would happen, but the door swings both ways. Point is, I wasn't advocating anything that simplistic.
EDIT : Woops I r dum misread tone of post
CFC has won eve and people are back and crying about blobs. Wtf, is this 2008/9 all over again with CFC playing the role of the NC?
[Arrador] possesses a considerable understanding of ship configurations, strengths and weakness. He gives clear and purposeful instructions, is good at taking advantage of the fleet-composition he's dealt, and never loses sight of the main goal: fun. This, paired with an excellent tolerance for strong drink gives him an almost Churchillian capability to win, despite being completely pissed on booze most of the fleet operation.
The more things change... still, it beats people whinging about supercaps!
Even if those two regions were overflowing with well adjusted normal people its not like anything would be different. They would get ~400 dudes in maelstroms, die a few times, then go mission in venal.
If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
Fear the KKM
That can be arranged.
So who won Eve before Bob->Goons->NC->DRF->Goons? Or did it start with Bob?
I'd agree with this in an ideal world. But timezones kind of make it stupid. You go attack someone in your time zone, destroy all their stuff, they attack you in theirs and destroy all your stuff. And it wouldn't stop the blobbing; more people will still rule fleet battles, but instead of taking Tenal in a few weeks it would've been done in a few days.
There's more dimensions to this than just reff timers. I'm deliberately not suggesting any solutions because there are far better people equipped with skill and time to think these things through and it's better to reach agreement on the issues and symptoms of the issues before throwing in lots of design solutions. In other words, let's not be constrained by the shitty system we have but be more open to a completely new way of looking at the problem(s).
We talk often about risk and reward. Where is the risk in leaving your home space completely undefended to travel to the farthest corner of the map to attack someone else? There is none. Worst anyone can do is reinforce *something* which in itself generates little to negligible loss. The very nature of mechanics being timer based allows anyone, wherever they are to be back to defend that asset regardless, bringing the whole map with them if they so desire (and the whole map can also move themselves, with no risk either!).
I didn't say that there is or should be a problem to stop more people ruling fleet battles; I have no problem with anyone assembling a 2,000 man army and marching around blowing people up. But I personally don't believe it should be easy to move those 2k people around the map from corner to corner within < 10 mins (as is the case today) or that you should be able to do so with no risk or consequence to your actions.
I would like to see more conflict, more things to fight over, more opportunities to make actions and consequences thereof matter. At the moment there is absolutely nothing you can do of any strategic value that doesn't generate a timer, which in turn encourages blobbing. This isn't a commentary against large coalitions specifically but equally to afk empires and renter constructs where any opportunity for conflict is choked by the limitations of a very simplistic and limited game mechanic. It's frankly boring and pointless for everyone.
Tenal yes because it's so underdeveloped, but Branch is staggeringly huge. 94 systems with 35 stations. Most of the CFC deployed to Branch for the Tenal invasion and while a tight fit, it's worked. Granted, it is crowded and there's been an uptake on the ratting drama, but it is an indicator of just how many people you can fit in a fully upgraded region.
Timers are too long, it takes a week to take a station system and you have to come back every day of that week to RF something (and if defenders actually win a single timer, back to square one).
Making all timers 24h max could make this sov "warfare" a bit more dynamic. Maybe.
Bliss for president
It would be nice if there was 1 shot to defend a system. Maybe a target with low HP that a small gang could hit, with a fixed timer like a POS. Then they have to come back again and shoot something with a little more HP (but not as much as an IHUB or TCU) to flip the station/system.
That would allow small gangs to be a serious threat, and make grinding sov more fluid and less painful. Also remove SBU bullshit.
If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
Fear the KKM
Introducing Dust integration is a great opportunity to overhaul the system.
Give the attackers a chance to contact _one_ of the current timers to mercs in Dust, if they win they skip that timer?
I wouldn't mind that if it were easier to install infrastructure upgrades. The big ones require a freighter and if you make sov too easy to snap then the infrastructure upgrades just get ridiculous.
I agree, I think something got lost in translation ;"protesting" wasn't the word I was looking for
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