With all the chest beating from FW folks, I imagine there's a nice tear generating opportunity for PL. Alliances will be able to join FW soon, right?
With all the chest beating from FW folks, I imagine there's a nice tear generating opportunity for PL. Alliances will be able to join FW soon, right?
[Arrador] possesses a considerable understanding of ship configurations, strengths and weakness. He gives clear and purposeful instructions, is good at taking advantage of the fleet-composition he's dealt, and never loses sight of the main goal: fun. This, paired with an excellent tolerance for strong drink gives him an almost Churchillian capability to win, despite being completely pissed on booze most of the fleet operation.
EDIT: Also, you find you have very little use for JBs when you have no blues :P
The biggest hypothetical there is whether or not militias will be given mechanics to allow interference with 0.0 jump travel. The certainty is that 0.0 alliances would develop a counter, even if it means consolidating alliance logistical runs to a monthly roadtrip to occupy a FW system long enough to remove any infrastructure and free up movement.
Delurking to try and prove that not all factional warfare folks are mongoloids.
After orbitting a central object for 10, 15 or 20 minutes depending on the size of the complex (and holy fuck enough with the things that can be shortened to 'plexes' ) you get around 100 VPs - this leads a fundamental debate amongst factional warfare folks as to whether it is worse to go and shoot red crosses for 20 minutes for no monetary gain or spend those 20 minutes hanging out with the NPCs because they're your bros for no monetary gain.
After your lot has 3000 VPs in a system - note that this means at least 5 man-hours of EVE PvE for it's own sake, since you're not getting paid - you then get the sheer pleasure of shooting a static object for little to no true gain until maybe the summer patch.
All of that is a long winded way of saying that AFK bombers probably wouldn't grief us as much as our own sovereignty system already does, but if you come down in Thrashers and manage to force us off plexes, it makes us do the longer ones for no extra VP or isk.
If there's eve news it's driven by 0.0 events or alliances and eve news drives subs. The debate around this mechanic will be framed by how it affects 0.0. Why would you want that? FW should be the driver of news in empire space. The debate shouldn't be framed by how it affects 0.0, but instead...how it affects EMPIRE. These are empire systems, ffs.
Anyway, nobody gives a shit about some .3 system that flipped and if the system went live...still nobody would care. It'd just be one more barrier of entry into 0.0 that can easily be removed by 24/7 1000 duders in maelstroms blotting out the sun. It's easy to blurf on an interweb forums, but FW's not going to stand up to that. The only ones hurt by this idea will be FW residents on supply routes enjoyed by large coalitions.
In all honestly man I don't get where you guys keep coming up with this PVP lite or weekend warriors stuff? We PVP every day. We live where we PVP & make our ISK meaning we can undock to find fights anytime we want. If anything most null sec Sov holders qualify more in line with "weekend warriors" than the active guys in FW. I undock and can find stuff to fight daily and hostilities live in our stations.
We don't live behind jump bridge chains or behind 20 jumps of intel channels with our care bear systems bubbled to hell and back with the biggest threat being some random Awoxer.
Looking at Goonswarm the largest alliance in in the game (8k members) they kill roughly 2.5k to 6k ships per month. Each FW militia alone tends to have 2k to 4k piliots at any given time with no where near that being active in the war front but any of the four Militia tends to average 3k to 5k kill per month.
(keep in mind that Alliances in FW & their kills no longer show up on EDK kill boards in the Militia stats, on EDK killboards KBs, because it still hasn't been update by their dev team)
While maybe we don't have large organized groups to blob out the sun with Drakes or Tengus or what ever the favorite ship is of the day for our smug "F1,F2. F3 warriors".. We are far from being weekend warriors. Also our KB's aren't padded with stats of shooting countless POS structures or having 300 guys whoring on the same KMs driving up our horrible ISK efficiency. "Some" of you null sec entities are pretty good the bulk are crap but yes I'm quite certain the larger groups can blot out the sun with numbers we aren't used to or can handle.
Yet end of the day, we will still be doing what we do and if it comes to that we with just up our game to be on par with the blobs. Minus the l33t super carrier PVP, but we won't need those being we will cyno jam every system in FW low sec if need be.
I mean of course we can't hold a candle to PL or groups like them, but I think FW guys have shown we also wont just roll over and play dead when someone invades our turff.
Because supers can't be parked in systems prior to their being cyno jammed...you're really bad at this.
Honestly we really don't care, we like to shoot stuff. More stuff to shoot is usually good in our books.
NAP, I think the point that people are trying to make is that the nullsec alliances are used to doing what they must to survive even if it's a labor intensive pain in the ass. If it becomes vital to their survival to control FW systems to maintain their supply lines then they will find a way to do it. If the existing FW groups become an obstacle to that, then the nullsec alliances will find a way to neutralize that threat. It may not be fun for either side, but if it is deemed necessary it will get done.
One of the more interesting things to come out of the ability to cyno jam systems is just to see which systems get jammed. On the one hand, no one likes getting hotdropped in their home system, but on the other hand we rely on carriers and freighters to resupply ourselves. That said, the fear of being shat on by supers will mollified, as it's unlikely any nullsec alliance will care enough to park even just the one super in any system we're likely to jam.
It wouldn't be painless, but an alliance willing to go to the effort could set up a single corp set up that had at least 0.5 standing will all four factions and the capability to take any of their logistics systems in as quick a time as possible. The corp could then just leave alliance and join whichever relevant militia whenever one of your logistics systems was jammed.
It wouldn't take the most manpower in the worst either - five or six dreads can take down a bunker in one siege cycle if memory serves and the whole scenario predicates on there being a cyno jammer, so your dreads are relatively safe. Then the issue is just getting the five-to-ten man hours of plexing done, but at least you know you're doing it ~for the good of the alliance~
I'm surprised that no one has pointed out the obvious about the cyno jammers. So far, no one other than FW care what a control bunker does and who has "control" in that system (I use control loosely.) If CCP all of the sudden implemented a cyno jammer to FW that fucks over EVERYONE yet only those inside FW can do something about it, no one would let that fly. 0.0 alliances are NOT faction warfare, and the entire game focus would shift (without a clutch) if they were forced to join FW. Let me say this again, 0.0 is NOT low sec, so there should be no reason to force them to join low sec. The opposite is true as well.
If I want to travel through a system with my carrier, and the ONLY way for that to happen is for me to change my allegiance to some other group, that doesn't fly. Even in 0.0 that doesn't work, if I want to travel through a cyno jammed system in 0.0, I go shoot the cyno jammer, simple as that. I don't have to be part of "group X" so that my guns can target the $^%& thing. Fuck that.
Your greatest strengths are that you are below the notice of most 0.0groups precisely because there is no reason to put you in the hurt locker as of now; and you aren't necessarily conditioned by propaganda that any group is impervious. Both of these traits can easily become weaknesses if 0.0 players realize that akhmon's farming alt just became his alliance's Mata Hari and you start suffering from the meta gaming that is played in 0.0 or you're camped in while the latest TEST aid flotilla rolls through on it's way to SMA or what have you.I mean of course we can't hold a candle to PL or groups like them, but I think FW guys have shown we also wont just roll over and play dead when someone invades our turff.
Part of the problem with low sec, is much of it's ISK resources can be controlled by null sec entities that have the ability to easily project their power into low sec with a simple cyno chain if need be. If these changes go live, it will allow FW guys to potentially have more control over their own areas of low sec. If it makes life harder for null sec entities then so be it. It's about time it took a bit more work to move your forces around the map at will.
One of the biggest reasons null sec sucks in the minds of many including myself, is there is no ability for smaller groups to project their power locally because they will always get curb stomped by the NAP trains that can easily move across the map at will. Perhaps giving us scrubs in low sec the ability to use things like cyno jamers will be a start or a test to see if it's potentially a way to allow smaller groups to control their space with out this NAP train or that one stomping them off the map.
After all CCP did say they intended to use FW as a testing bed for null sec Sov.. Perhaps CCP is trying to test the waters to see if they can come up with the ability to let smaller less organized groups control space with out total destruction. Where better to test something of this nature than FW space being only 1 of 2 sides can ever take any system?
You aren't getting 1vs1 against them if they feel they are threatened in logistics they will bring everyone and there mother ,they will camp you, infiltrate your corps , steal your members grief them etc etc..
Essentially I'm sure you can if you put your minds to it create alt corps with-in FW to do your bidding. However it will require a great deal of time & effort to do so. This is what you guys seem to keep over looking. Our Sov isn't based on set timers.. We fight all hours of the day & night with no pre-determined battles that are controlled by timers.
I can go to sleep in a system controlled by my Militia and in extreme case wake up and it's in the hands of the other side.
What you fail to understand is that they don't need to create alt corps. They already have tons of alt corps. It's not a matter of needing a lot of pilots either, you can revert a system with a few dedicated jewers and the time to work unmolested. You don't need to be militia to fight militia; you can do a main fleet deployment to cover that. 20 guys and a 300 man deployment to cover them on the weekends.
Your numbers can't make plexes spawn any faster or cause them to run any faster than 1 guy flying a Rifter. To capture a system it requires a min of about 6 hours time commitment assuming it wasn't already contested by the other side causing you more time needed. You simply can't get around the time investment needed to capture FW systems and anything you can do today can be undone the next day or ever hours later.
FW sov with plexing creates a very fluid battle zone when both sides focus on plexing and requires your side to have active members in your space at all hours of the day..
Yeah, that was actually my bad for implying that it is just the man-hours that you need to put in. There are around 30 plexes that spawn around the warzone in a random fashion, and once one is finished it respawns in another system - Amarr plexes spawning in systems that are occupied by the Amarr and the same for all other factions. It's not impossible to target a specific system, but it can be a slog if the spawn gods disfavor you.
That said, yes it would be possible for Goons to hellcamp Kamela or wherever, given the whole shitload of dudes that you have. I'm told that you've got FCs that can even make that fun or at least bearable. It is also true that we are used to plexing systems out from under people and certainly for the first few ops, we'd have the home advantage. At the end of the day, no one will ever win a 'my alliance > your alliance' debate on a forum - given how easy it is to leave an alliance/corp, anyone in that corp/alliance must have decided that they're in the best damn corp/alliance in the game
Cynojamming lowsec systems will never be implemented.
And remember that they're the faction cynojammers, the kind that keep you out of hisec. So long as their logistics are all in-faction, there's no reason for a militia to not jam a system.
On top of that, there really aren't that many systems that will be affected by this. Quite a lot of nullsec deployment systems aren't even involved in FW. If you think you need to do logistics thru Black Rise, get a fucking clue.
Even if CCP go ahead with things as already announced, it won't change much.
Delve Goons should be removed from Delve /discuss
From a sheer "I want to jump in my ship and pew pew" standpoint, FW is absolutely brilliant. You can compete or participate at nearly any level; solo, small gang, blob...low skill, unorganized mess or themed fleet. If you die, you reship and go at it again. The consequence for failure is as high or low as you choose it to be based on the ship you throw into the fray. In 0.0, a shifting border means lost/gained assets, lost/gained logistical options, lost/gained strategic options. The consequences for failure are much higher, and so the necessity to run properly organized fleets, grow skilled fleet commanders, and have effective doctrine becomes much higher. And again, to avoid confusion, that doesn't mean there aren't skilled FW pilots and FCs...it just means that the only "benefit" of being a skilled FC with a skilled fleet in FW is a gratuitous k/d ratio (or, it's a reward unto itself) and the only "consequence" of being unskilled is either lost ships or more carefully chosen fights (or, not much consequence at all.)
When I say pvp-lite, I'm merely addressing what's at stake.
or the stamina to perform some sort of 'hellcamp' of the required systems
Also poor NAP doesn't seem to realize what 'PvP' with an 0.0 alliance entails, since he's still thinking about shooting ships and not about what it means to have a horde of Goons in his comms channels
Cyno jamming lowsec systems is probably a non-starter, but just for fun who would care if they did (in the short term). The people who actually do JF logistics are universally reviled as bloodsuckers who make jew gold on the backs of their hard working alliance mates. When one of them loses JF to stupid shit (shadowandlight) no one goes "oh dear, thats terrible." They laugh and dont give a shit.
And as far as CFC is concerned, they control EC- so why spend hours a day flying around a lowsec structure when you can be in a "roaming" gang that clears the bubbles/rabble out of EC- on their way to somewhere else?
If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
Fear the KKM
i hear they aint just gonna limit it to the HQ of the militia
CCP said in response to a question at the fan fest panel that the cyno jammers would only jam members of FW, has this changed? or are you all just sperging over a non issue.