I found this in the video about new UI. Would be added as part of a new local channel I guess.
Attachment 2790
Local chat: for all your local discussion needs
I found this in the video about new UI. Would be added as part of a new local channel I guess.
Attachment 2790
Because catching ratters wasn't hard enough.Originally Posted by Sterling86
[URL="http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12609601"][ 2012.03.02 08:32:51 ] Kurth Ren > whereas love squad avoids any engagement that is not a onesided curbstomp[/URL]
[URL="http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=11888507"][ 2012.03.02 08:34:08 ] Kurth Ren > but you are literally arguing with the inventor of broski, you aren't going to win a debate about broski history with me[/URL]
[URL="http://unidan.net/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=1876"][ 2012.03.02 08:40:48 ] Kurth Ren > it's filled with bitter faggots who would rather be slaves to finns and run at the first sign of a fight then go on ops[/URL]
One day, the entire system will lock down once you arrive and the ratter will automatically be warped to the nearest PoS/Station, where he can watch as the T3 Gate Guns kill you in one hit
But this is not that day
Hrm. I can't say I'm a fan of that.
Lazy pizza bum. Just use blops and logoff shenanigans, duh.
If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
Fear the KKM
Now all they need to do is add an option to trigger a loud beeping sound when a neutral enters local and I can fulfill my life-long dream of belt mining in 0.0 without being aligned out while simultaneously smugposting about it on Kugu.
Stealth delvegoons nerf
Well nothing they do except delayed or no local is going to make a lick of difference for bots so they might as well go ahead and make relevant information easier to see for actual players with actual eyeballs.
The whole X pilots in local of Blue/Neutral/Red standing is good. I think that it's a good idea - have it update 1 minute after a change and don't list actual names in local in 0.0. So you could always see how many people are in local (instantly updated), and 1m after someone jumps in/out the blue/neutral/red counter updates.
If you're aligned and careful you'll never get caught anyway (as it should be), if you're retarded or a bot you'll get caught (also as it should be.)
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
Sec if you didn't notice it updates instantly and the names are right below it, it is literally the carebeariest possible local
I'm also going to assume it's part of the 'fantasy' section of that video
i dont know where this line of thinking that bots are worse at watching local/overview and warping out comes from but its pretty much untrue.
Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.
They still haven't adapted to awoxing.
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
Neither has anyone else
P much
Yeah, short of making nullsec local behave like wormholes, no change will matter much.
I've been talking about making a 5th type of space available where mechanics work as a middle ground between nullsec and wormholes. Static, no limmit gates, jump drives available, no local, no static resources. Basically, create a ring of "fringe regions" that provide more income opportunities than nullsec, with an increased risk. It'd require a retool of POS mechanics (so living there is not a nightmare), and a game-wide rebalance of income (to make it fit income-wise), but those two things are sorely needed anyway.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/hChYV.png[/IMG]
"Every rifter counts friend" - VR
Here's what I propose: Don't update Local (with numbers or names) until the arriving person/people have decloaked. The fact that I show up in local a full five seconds before I even load grid is more than enough time to alert a bot and usually just enough to get even an armor tanked ratting BS aligned to a safe/POS.
Haha. It's more than just enough, as previously discussed in another thread, the minimum time imposed by grid loading time + the ship scanner time + narrowing down + warp + locking is more than enough for almost any ship, even a carrier, to escape from 0 m/s. I mean if they're in a belt it's a little faster but then it's all about luck (warping to a cluster of 5 belts which one is it.)
Usually people troll at this stage, "you just want easy ratter kills" etc but simply put there is no way to truly surprise someone in a nullsec system no matter what they are in. The only way of catching someone is relying on stupidity, which is bad game design in my opinion.
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
That's all true. And I think it would be a change that wouldn't nerf roaming gangs, either (as removing local entirely would). If you're camping a gate and you see gate fire, well, then you ought to know that somebody is coming through regardless of whether or not Local tells you so. But if you're sitting in a belt or anom, why should you know that somebody's coming well before they even know you're in the system?
Would also make small gang brawls on gates more interesting as a 'local spike' wouldn't even be seen until the bait's gang is literally in your ass.
I much preferred the Eve in 2005/06 that had local, but showed no standings at all. Sure, people back then added hostiles to their contacts list to flag them, or edited portrait cache files (damn you goons, damn you) to get around it, but it was still useful since not everyone did this, nor did everyone have everyone else in the contact list. You'd jump into a populated carebear system and just blend in with the 20+ neutrals in local. Many random members of alliances were also clueless as to whether a neutral was friend or foe. It was awesome.
Of course, those were also the days of no warp-to-zero, which mean you could catch people that didn't have proper bookmarks -- and, importantly -- almost no one had bookmarks from a random belt to a gate or to a station. Warp to zero was directional and environment dependent.
CCP is stupid and has steadily nerfed these things. The new UI thingy, although convinient, where it actually counts the blues, red and neutrals is further dumbing down the game. Now your scout doesn't even have to have the mental capacity to count, or estimate numbers.
YES I AM BITTER
yeah, they actually have, it's just that most of test is too rl poor/stupid to get the updated version that warps if any non-fleet member appears on grid.They still haven't adapted to awoxing.
Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.
On the other hand, given a method that would guarantee a successfull kill of said 0.0 carebear, it wouldn't take long for everybody to start doing just that and then players realize that the glorified "risk vs reward" is suddenly missing the 'reward' element, go back to empire and we end up with dead nullsec.
What the game does now is that it punishes the carebear for his mistakes. Whether you call it being retarded or just unlucky doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is that in order for the game to live isk needs to be made and minerals need to be mined. Without those there would be no PvP whatsoever.
A system like this could work if there weren't any static belts, ie. everything was probed using core probes or ship scanner. It could be uncharted space. The largest obstacle is that local is the best intel tool the game has to offer. The directional scanner is a decent tool but removing local would all but force someone to continuously spam the scanner is more retarded than local chat being an intel tool.
I think this would work ok.
It would hardly 'guarantee' a kill, it would just mean that anybody retarded enough to rat in a slow-aligning ship deserves to die, which is completely true.
Further, all the current system does is reward bots who can catch local faster than an eyeball, which exacerbates the botting problem. There's a lot of ways to make ISK in nullsec, even if local mechanics were changed, which would enable an active and attentive carebear to evade roaming gangs. The fact that there are so few roaming gangs that actively pursue ratters (because they're so hard to catch as things are) should tell you that it's far too safe.
Back when making bookmarks was a skill that you needed to learn in the game. Lining up gates, stations to gates ect. CCP dumbed it down for bad players and added warp to 0 and took out the directional warps to cater to people who suck and didn't want to put in the effort to improving their skills and character. Unfortunate.
You hardly need to spam the D-Scanner, even in an updated no-local system. If you're aligned, you can literally wait until they are on grid with you before warping out. If they're not cloaky, they'll have to be on D-Scan to scan you down (which takes some time), and if they are cloaky, there's still a 6-second decloak timer unless they're in a stealth bomber. It would definitely not be a guaranteed kill, ever.
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
And if they're in a stealth bomber, they're bound to be easy pickings for drones, if not completely fuckable with a neut or bonused webs (since it sounds like anoms are being changed such that you have to kill all frigs before a new wave spawns, fffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu).
Let me tell you about finishing an angel cartel mission in curse while a hostile Machariel landed at 80k from me and burned at me. I think I warped at like 40k. Point is it's actually really hard to get caught if you're not stupid about things.
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
Pretty much spot on. About the only time I've managed to kill ratters and miners was when I put a bomber into a system and left it there logged in while I'm at work. It takes a few days to get them to ignore me enough that I kill a ratter or miner (including a couple dumb orca pilots)
I lived in a WH long enough that I know using a dscan isn't that damned hard. If local were delayed for even a minute or two, I think neither the (smart) ratter or the attacker will have a huge advantage over each other.
Only if they're doing it wrong. bombers will eventually die to drones but with an MSE, the hound and purifier can handle a little punishment.
I always have to laugh when people talk about getting pvp and then go on about ganking ratters. If you make pve in 0.0 worse then it is now you will only see more people who are out of 0.0 for isk making and only play on roams and CTA's. It will only dry up the kill pool even more.
Its not like any of the changes CCP did that got labelled as: This will save small gang pvp, did anything that actually increased the amount of small gang pvp by a big amount in 0.0 or made it that much more interesting. The only way to increase the action for small gangs is to get more people out of highsec and into the lowsec/0.0 area. Making life a living hell for people who live in 0.0 will only increase the problem.
I make most of my pitiful income from ratting. I haven't lost a ratting ship in a year, partly because of local and partly because I generally don't go AFK. I've been on both sides of this issue and the fact is, ratting is far too safe. There's practically no risk if you're not a retard and I like a little risk.
People who quite null because they lost a ratting drake will probably quit playing hard mode at some point anyway.
I agree with the fact that ratting is safe if you know what you are doing but that's the same saying that everyone is pulling 150 mil/h on incursions and missions. Which just isn't true. If you remove local you ether end up with ratters spamming their D-scan every second or if there has been a sighting of a cloaky will stop to rat completely and just move to highsec again to make money there. Which will result in the same. Ratting will die out with the except for the guys that has no clue what they are doing or doesn't care about it and those will die to roaming gangs anyway. So in the end you just generate less targets, unless you make it hyper-profitable. Which will wreck the economy again.
You forgot the guys who don't mind being hunted. When all is said and done, that's a large part of the reason for going to null anyway.
I didn't say remove local. I suggested a short delay that would give the hunters some change of *maybe* scoring a kill. Eve is supposed to be a cold cruel world environment so darwin showing up and killing an unprepared or unlucky ratter should be expected. Don't sell the ratters short. Some of them will decide that shit was fun and join in.
Iwould love something like this a delay of 5 minutes , so that you can go on a killing spree in a entire region searching for targets
Some will, the majority will just say: Fuck it, I'm going to highsec. The only way to make any of this work is if they rebalance everything pve wise. To make it so that ratting in 0.0 is actually work the risk/reward. Just increasing the risk without the reward wont work. Even if they would increase the reward you would still need to nerf income in highsec by a huge amount to actually make it worth it. The last boost to 0.0 ratting income still wasn't enough for the people who turned to incursions for their isk to return to 0.0 and now ccp is talking about reducing it again.
Note that I'm talking about perceived risk and not the actual risk. Cause as you said yourself in reality ratting in pretty damn safe if you know what you are doing in its current form.
Delayed local + nerf to highsec mission/incursion income. They have to go hand in hand. CCP has kind of painted themselves in a corner on some of this shit. I don't think there's any way around reducing high sec income streams. If the Mitanni wanted to do something disruptive but also useful, instead of his whole "burn Jita" thing he could start a mission runner genocide.
Delayed local + nerf to highsec mission/incursion income. They have to go hand in hand. CCP has kind of painted themselves in a corner on some of this shit. I don't think there's any way around reducing high sec income streams, and people aregoimg to scream like babys about that. If the Mitanni wanted to do something disruptive but also useful, instead of his whole "burn Jita" thing he could start a mission runner genocide.
If you can't make enough money to replace a drake in a couple of hours, even in the shittiest space, you're doing it wrong anyway. I made 25mil from a forsaken hub (Thanks for pointing those out, Grath) in maybe twenty minutes today. One lower end anom run a few times will put you in a nicely fitted drake. A couple of hours will have you in a Domi. I've made enough in a couple of weeks that I wouldn't be set back too far if someone gets my carrier (no I don't rat in it). This is all in -.1 space. I imagine if I had a system with havens, my carrier could bring in upwards of 80mil per hour. That is plenty of money to replace the odd lost ship.
I do understand what you're saying about people quitting and going home. They'll eventually get ganked on a gate or JB and it'll be over anyway.
Not everyone wants to play your (or my) eve. Forcing people to go to null is basically telling them GBTW. CCP needs the highsec players. Null residents need to get over the isk envy and pretend HS is there to provide them with a market and easy ganks. Nerfing HS missions too much is like CCP throwing wads of Kroner out the window and lighting them on fire. this wouldn't bode well for any of us.
I'm saying that people rather make money in highsec to support their pvp, where they can get the same or even more isk/h then in 0.0 with almost no risk at all, then go and rat in 0.0 with no or delayed local and make less isk/h with more risk. I'm not sure whats not to get. I can get around 130/140 mil pre tax dualboxing a machariel and an archon with a suboptimal setup fitting and ammo. But why on earth would I go and risk them if I can get 100 mill an hour in highsec with almost no risk involved with the same machariel alone. If I get my archon pilot in a logi ship or a dps ship would and dualbox in highsec. I would hit 200 mil pretty effortless with incursions with corp tax payed.
There is just no reason to try and sustain yourself in 0.0 unless you ether bot, refuse to move up and down or if you are in a war. It would only become worse if you would include a delayed or no local to it.
What your post said (to me) was that you want a 40% boost in income from LVL 4's without the worry of having any risk. That's not to say I didn't run LVL4's to make isk but with the anom changes you don't really need to as the difference in income (for me at least) is minimal now, even in bad truesec. Factor in the faction drops I got this week, and I'm probably doing a little better than HS missions.
That's bullshit and you know it. 90% of the people in this game prefer their version of PVE to any PVP at all.
As far as the exodus to highsec, they don't really matter much. The ones who would quit null over losing a ratter only show up when there's a CTA. Are you sure you get it? i mean the risk of living in a lawless land? The entire point is that it's expected to be risky. It's not a WOW arena.
stop getting stuff added in the mix that has nothing to do with it. I don't care about the 90% of the game. I care about 0.0.
People are complaining about 3 things when you talk about 0.0 pve and roaming.
1. Regions being filled with little to no targets
2. Bots all over the place
3. Not enough small gang targets.
So the solution they call is making PVE harder in 0.0 by adding no local or delayed. So what will hapen to those 3 points:
1. The few renters that are stupid enough to believe its worth it get farmed to hell by pvpers and move away in a few months. which means less targets.
2. Bots ether get upgraded to still be uncatchable or move to safer grounds.
3. Even less targets small gangs
What you are saying looks great on paper and maybe works for the border area's like providence where you are surrounded by lowsec and people will just stick their nose in just see what's going on. But if you go further into 0.0 it will just make even worse as nobody wants to live there except big alliances filled with people who have ether multiple accounts or use reimbursement to replace their pvp losses and masochistic people who love to get shit on all the time. like now but then even worse.
Removing local standings would solve a lot of problems, and not really create new ones like delayed/no local. Your random 0.0 carebear, for example, would feel more safe being in a system with a few known friends than a sea of neutrals who may or may not be friendly. This may even put pressure on some power blocks to split up, with a lot of smaller independent entities forming. It would also add a lot of uncertainty to fleet flights where you wouldn't be so sure of enemy numbers or even your own numbers.
Of course, CCP seems to be heading in the opposite direction
I would like this, but with some compromise, an I-hub add-on, target-able/killable/hackable & big/expensive, that is a "local intel scanner" - creates a delayed update of standings.Removing local standings would solve a lot of problems, and not really create new ones like delayed/no local. Your random 0.0 carebear, for example, would feel more safe being in a system with a few known friends than a sea of neutrals who may or may not be friendly. This may even put pressure on some power blocks to split up, with a lot of smaller independent entities forming. It would also add a lot of uncertainty to fleet flights where you wouldn't be so sure of enemy numbers or even your own numbers.
Of course, CCP seems to be heading in the opposite direction
This way, you can increase the amount of ratters dying, still maintain home defense w/o making intersystem intel difficult, and allow black-ops to really shine. Most systems this way would remain neutral-only, thus increasing the chances to catch unsuspecting travelers
Which problems would it solve exactly? I don't see how this is a good idea at all. People would probably circumvent the danger by using 3rd party apps or memory, not to mention it would promote playing alone. Power blocks probably won't split up but will just put limits on the systems their members can go. For fleet fights, the overview fucking shows you standings and it's not that hard to count, maybe even make a script to it for you.
90% eh?
And therein lies the reason I've argued in favor of a delayed local (which I know will never happen). This problem already exists. As much as people used to laugh at all the stations in Provi, the fact is there have been plenty of space empires building stations to weather the storms of the roaming five-man gangs. You practically can't get PVP unless you're willing to engage a blob or you arrange a space honor fight.
Maybe this is crazy-talk, but instead of delayed local why not just have 0.0 rats scram...all of them, at decently long range.
Delayed local is a retarded and dumb idea.
The ability to warp cloaked and light a cyno is imbalanced. Delayed local in wormholes works because you can't cyno shit on top of someone.
EDIT: Also, I find fights with local. If you remove local there will be LESS fights as they will be harder to find. Imagine, your roaming gang jumps into system... you do a D-Scan, nothing there, ok, drop probes... still nothing.
"Okay gang, recall probes, warp to next gate lets do this again"
And do that.... ALL FUCKING NIGHT.
Get fucked on a delayed local, it's a horrible idea.
Leave nullsec local as it is, add more space without local, make people happy.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/hChYV.png[/IMG]
"Every rifter counts friend" - VR
THIS!
Add some NPC and/or low sec space without local and call it a day. Don't change what isn't broken. Local, as it is works for all intents and purposes. Removing it will break more in the game than fix.
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