Yeah, but drone rats could drop all that awesome named/meta drones loot! Remember that? No?Originally Posted by Yue
Huh. I seem to be the only one. Easily CCP's greatest addition to the game so far. Named drones. Really lit up the whole universe.
Yeah, but drone rats could drop all that awesome named/meta drones loot! Remember that? No?
Huh. I seem to be the only one. Easily CCP's greatest addition to the game so far. Named drones. Really lit up the whole universe.
Yeah, was a nice idea, but they made them underwhelming. If they had even given them +5% dps over normal t2, for 'augmented' ones, they would actually be useful
The Incursion nerf is needed, but we have yet to see if it goes far enough. I'm sure Incursions will still blow everything else out of the water ISK-wise, but I'd also like to see Incursions discourage officer-fit shiny fleets by occasionally being overwhelming enough to outdamage logi reps.
And as far as drones go, I didn't see any mention of what drones actually drop now - do they just have bigger bounty payouts to make up for the lack of drops, or do they actually drop mods?
Someone summarized all the drone changes up on the eve-o forums (lol):
Seems like Drones Space is shit now.So, just to make sure:
(1) Rogue drones are getting bounties, but will not be dropping any modules aside from scrap metal.
(2) Rogue drone salvage will still be craptastic.
(3) Rogue drone "officer" spawns are still going to be worthless.
(4) Rogue drone DED complexes will still be completely useless, and no new ones are in the pipe, nor is anyone going to look at them in the near future.
(5) Nothing is being done to make mining more interesting, or to increase the local supply of low-end minerals in null.
If that part of the previous chaos dump is finally official by means of devblog, I wonder if we'll get one for the new mods this week?
The thing is that the second you make it so fleets running incursions make less money than L4 runners, the highsec bears are just going to switch back. As it stands, a solo L4 runner in a Mach with a proper LP spreadsheet can easily break 140-150 mill/hour, despite LP stores being 'flooded' with incursion LP. The second you force people to take more risk to make less isk than that incursions will die. They'll just take their incursion Mach back to their 0.5 system and run L4s.
Devblog Citation
Can you please explain your POV as to the why Incursions NEED to be nerfed? Do take into account my previous statement about highsec l4s making over 100mill an hour easily. Basically, if the isk faucet of incursions is so much lower than bounties and the risk/reward argument is nullified by L4s, why are you so vigorously calling for the head of easily the least boring pve in the game?There‘s certainly a lot of money coming from Incursions. Incursion rewards in December amounted to 9.6 trillion ISK, which is an all time high, while the rewards in January and February were 9.0 and 8.7 trillion ISK respectively. That‘s quite a bit of money entering the economy. However, Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, bounties are. Bounty prizes paid out in February totalled 33 trillion ISK.
[URL="http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12609601"][ 2012.03.02 08:32:51 ] Kurth Ren > whereas love squad avoids any engagement that is not a onesided curbstomp[/URL]
[URL="http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=11888507"][ 2012.03.02 08:34:08 ] Kurth Ren > but you are literally arguing with the inventor of broski, you aren't going to win a debate about broski history with me[/URL]
[URL="http://unidan.net/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=1876"][ 2012.03.02 08:40:48 ] Kurth Ren > it's filled with bitter faggots who would rather be slaves to finns and run at the first sign of a fight then go on ops[/URL]
Mining is a grind. What do you want, faction rock spawns? Pretty much everybody who got into mining (before realizing the payout was shit) did so with the understanding that it wasn't for fun.(5) Nothing is being done to make mining more interesting, or to increase the local supply of low-end minerals in null.
Also, the whole reason the North has been able to assemble and deploy Titan blobs is because low-ends are readily available in those regions and not others. I don't bear a lot of sympathy toward those who would complain that supercapitals aren't easy enough to build.
I didn't wrote that, so :dunno:, but point 1 to 4 are pretty accurate.
Because the ISK faucet of incursions is lower than bounties as a sum-total of all participants, but hardly as an average of individual participants. I take it you've read some of the threads put up about people making well over 100m/hour per toon running the VGs. Yeah, L4s can make that much, but not by multiboxing them; L4s suffer diminishing returns in this respect whereas Incursions don't, since everybody gets the same massive payout.
It needs to be done because Incursions are depopulating 0.0 of carebears, which was not the intended effect of adding content to high-sec.
Nigga you dumb? Usually people who multibox L4s run separate missions for each character.
So that second point, which actually answers the question July asked, is totally valid?
From my perspective its all risk vs reward. A non autistic incursion fleet has extremely low risk and shits isk. They should downgrade it to be what I think it was meant to be, a social activity with equivelant payouts to lvl 4s. Its a group activity with highsec level risk, and shouldnt be promoted above all else.
If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
Fear the KKM
If a sperglord carebear can make the same amount of isk without having to go through social interaction with others, he will. Making incursions equal in income to l4's is pretty much the same as knifing a drunk and leaving him in a gutter to die. It's not just risk vs reward, it's risk plus effort vs reward as well and most carebears avoid other humans like they avoid showers.
They should tie incursions in with FW, redistribute them so there are less spawning in high-sec and more in low, and do a % reduction of all bounties paid. CCP needs to grow a pair of balls, maybe fire/hire some people and start making some design changes, because honestly - How much of the systems currently in place are well thought out and polished?
Make average for income in high sec be like 100m~/hr, low sec be 250m~/hr and null be 400m~/hr.
Games fixed ur welcome.
Uh.
Right.
The point of incursions wasn't to make asstons more money than L4s, it was to interfere with solo pilots' isk source enough that they would band up with others (to disperse the incursion) while not being such a worthless pain in the ass that they would just jumplclone / fly somewhere else. CCP of course couldn't figure out how to do this / knows that if incursion running makes 1 isk/hr less than infinitely supplied L4s that no one will ever touch them.
Mining isn't supposed to make a lot of money either, it's supposed to make OK money while being mostly AFK or at least requiring low attention, vice what's supposed to be a difficult clickfest for ratting. However, the real purpose of mining (in 0.0, at least) is to provide those elusive 'targets for roaming gangs'. This is an obvious paradox, as miners aren't going to just hang out undocked and oblivious if there's not a damned good reward for it, and if they do, they'll have ways of avoiding ganks which require paying more attention. And of course ratting in a pimpship is so easy that it's essentially already at the low attention levels mining should be.
Huh, and this whole time I thought mining was also to provide materials for everything built in the universe.
Guess you learn something new every day.
Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but if not, you make it sound like miners are supposed to be charitable servants of the market who don't require any motivation to do what it is they do.
Huh? Like, as a function of its proximity to Jita?
Did you mean the Drone regions?
It's like agriculture. Yeah, farmers produce food that people need to eat, but only because they can make money from it
K(awaii)ugu(u)tsumen
No, it's already been sufficiently addressed, you just ignored it.
Highsec L4s have been significantly more profitable than nullsec ratting and anyone who isn't a retard and/or moron has been doing that on alts instead of making less money in nullsec while also having to grapple with the threat/downtime of occupied anoms and hostile roaming gangs
Risk:reward lmao
Well, then you should be happy about the upcoming changes -- they contain a significant nerf to isk/hr for L4s as a function of the removal of meta 0 mods.
It's called pointing out the obvious. Like stating facts. Sometimes son, there isn't a deeper meaning.
Not at all, I'm just pointing out that once the drone space compounds leave the universe, all minerals will have to come from either mining or rat drop refining... So they're not just juicy targets in belts, or low-rent noobs with nothing better to do, they'll again be the source of everything we buy.
That is also retarded because looting missions is already a waste of time and you're always better off blitzing high-LP missions for 5-run BPCs.
It's like ccp doesn't understand their own game or something
I know this, you know this, but does the average pubbie know this? I can /almost/ see the logic behind the move from that perspective, as I imagine there is a startling number of high sec players who loot items, refine all, and sell the minerals at below market price because they want quick isk for a new faction hardener for their tengu or something.
Just how many of them do that remains to be seen, but still, I think its a perspective worth considering before writing the change off as completely useless; its just mostly useless.
It's not about who knows this, people are dumb idiots and people being dumb shouldn't be taken into account when considering the balance of the game.
You do have a point there, although simply having rats with bounties will make the space much more desirable for the average pilot, simply because all the effort involved (or what one expects to be involved) of turning drone alloys into profit is gone. You get your paycheck right away, like everywhere else around the galaxy.
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
The only reason this works is that 95% of highsec mission runners are too dumb/lazy/uninterested to bother finding out which items convert well and build up the necessary faction standings - it shouldn't be anything like as profitable as it is. That said, I doubt CCP is all that bothered by a few min-maxers pumping out high value LP; they're probably far more interested in stopping the torrent of minerals coming from the much larger body of players who just grind through every NPC in every mission and then loot everything before dumping it on the nearest convenient buy order.
[I]spherical monkey fears and envies[/I]
CCP isn't interested in curbing LP gains -- they're interested in two things with these changes: staunching the non-mining mineral faucet and lowering isk sinks. Lots of people (read: bots) loot the field and generate loads of minerals with their meta 0 drops.
I'd agree, but the dumb heavily outnumber the knowledgable. I cite this forum as an example.
I agree with delaying local but not so much on Incursions. Anyone who lives in null and earns isk through them is (I'd hope) more willing to fight. The HS bears... who even cares. They'll never go to dangerous space.
Glad I don't give a fuck about pveThat blog is retarded.
There is no Guristas 9/10.
Drone rats now have bounties, but no faction/officer spawns - woot?
Graph is retarded.
Glad I don't give a fuck about Drone Regions eh?
I'll ask the question that everyone is thinking: Does this mean you will now lead mining fleets?
Yes, they do.
Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.
There are lots of ways to get minerals but the reason CCP wants it done through mining (and, as much as possible, in lowsec/null) is to encourage the flying around of slow, poorly tanked, ungunned, expensive ships, preferably in large groups, so that Elite Small-Gang PvP can shoot them. Otherwise, what are they going to shoot, structures??
True, but most alliances either have a very comprehensive (and competitive) buyback program or die out quickly in the dronelands, so it's not that much faster. And drones made better ISK/hr than other rats assuming you had a good buyback program. Now most of the regions will just be like a slightly-better Wicked Creek or Scalding Pass, and when was the last time something momentous happened there?
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
Oddly enough, the words CCP themselves wrote regarding highsec incursions sound nothing at all like this. Though, I can't imagine why CCP would reward group PvE content over solo PvE content, this is a highly unusual and bold new direction in MMO design.
I don't know, I'm sure there is some new alliance with the same recycled leadership of 06s who want to go to war over some shit regions like that.
Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.
Yes, the alliances that are established there may have such programs (usually getting that passed down from the slumdog masters Legion and Solar, thus they don't even have it invent it).
I do believe however that entities, especially if they do not want to get under the umbrella of Solar, might get scared away from that part of the map simply because they think it'll be a lot of effort. Sure, once you're in and you have that stuff figured out, I guess it works just as fine. The lack of bounties, respectively the perceived effort of turning drone ratting into liquid ISK, did appear to be bigger obstacle in settling down there in contrast to other areas of 0.0. It puts the Drone regions almost on par with other 0.0 space, in terms of attractivity, for new comers or smaller independant entities. Of course, a lack of faction/officer loot and the imbalance of moons still didn't turn it into paradise. But for the individual player it gained a lot of attractivity. (In turn for big entities willing to shit out supers it became less attractive, I'll give you that.)
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
If that were true, it wouldn't be possible to achieve ISK:LP conversions of 3000:1 in highsec.I know this, you know this, but does the average pubbie know this?
[I]spherical monkey fears and envies[/I]
One of the main reasons Drone Regions suck, is that compared to any Null-sec region in eve there is no NPC space in range thus making it a pain to move to/from, attack or have any kind fun in those regions.
Really what a shitty dev blog, so hey guys just so you know we are nerfing your drones and nerfing your entire regions with it.
It is not a direct nerf, I am a drone-land dweller and I actually am seeing these changes positively. Yes CCP is forgetting lots of things (Drone plexes/faction/officer), but it is not like these things were worth doing before. Salvaging, even with a Noctis is/was a PITA and having bounties on Drones makes the grind slightly better.
The true-sec changes are bringing stuff more in-line with the rest of EVE, so it's more of a "balance" than nerf.
Leave it to kugu to have to explain negative and positive numbers lol
Ehm this is a plus for the ones owning the Drones, its one of the reasons that shitty empires over there existed so long, as it is extremely hard to jump caps into it. With an NPC region in the middle of drones they actually have to think about defending shit
(have both lived in the drones as invaded it)
A plus for those living there, but I wouldn't call shitty alliances good for the game.
Atleast it would require shitty alliances to turn moderately good or die off.
npc regions for everybody
Same here, and when I lived there everyone was begging for rat loot instead of drone compounds. For the first 2 years of their existence there were non-stop threads about it on eve-o. Eventually not even the residents cared (especially once they started shitting out supers), so once the whole debate died down, of course CCP finally does something about it.
Well in my opinion the other regions were badlly balanced in true sec and drone regions were the only ones that were pretty good balanced in terms of quantity of good negative systems.
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