Titan "The Eve Killer"

**Manny** · 2012-02-29

So since monaclegate shook the foundation of trust between CCP and the player I started to do as many did. I started looking for the exit. The problem I quickly ran into is there isn't a game imo that is out that can replace Eve Online. I searched and scoured and found nothing until I stumbled onto Titan. Out of curiosity I started digging but details are scant and well hidden. What I've found through much digging could POTENTIALLY be the Eve killer and the game to end all games.

Just a quick TL;DR

Mega Shard with cross shard interaction with a huge consensus that the interaction will be more substantial than a chat interface. ( Why not single shard you ask? Because the technology just doesn't exist to house millions of players on 1 server. Blizzard has stated they see TITAN having at least the same amount of success as WOW 12 million active subs. So I expect shards to house 500k to 1 mil players and/or what the current eve cluster can hold.

Sandbox style MMORPG with 2 distinct forms of interaction ( again major consensus albeit speculation suggest vehicle intensive pvp/pve and avatar based pvp/pve )

Sci-Fi themed ( there has been some leaked concept art and a vast majority of the artist recruited portraits are dominated by sci-fi esque artwork)

Intensive meaningful pvp ( Its Blizzard so its easy to think WOW pvp and the potential for that outcome could be true but no loss pvp doesn't fit in well to a sandbox)

Blizzard has stated that "Titan" (codename/working title) is a completely new franchise and they are creating it from the ground up. Blizzard has also stated that they expect Titan to outshadow the success of WOW but that both will be very different from eachother to not cause direct competitiion with eachother.

A leaked document suggested that Titan would be released in 2013 but knowing Blizzard Titan wont be out till late 2014 or early 2015. Blizzard literally will not release a game until they feel it is perfect.

Now I know you guys are sitting there saying Manny yoru crazy. All I can say is I have invested probably 40 hours or more of cumulative time scouring the internet for information.

Im going to include a few links into the op so that way people can poke around to where im getting SOME of my information. As I have more time I will expand and really get more in-depth with cross posting information from a bunch of sources Im convinced along the way that you guys will think im crazy and perhaps a lil creepy as I have literally been stalking TITAN. In the end I think ill be pretty SMUG however.

http://www.loregy.com/titan/blizzard...-blizzard-mmo/

http://titanfocus.info/

**Manny** · 2012-02-29

I have been doing the MMO thing since EQ1 launched stated through (8) expansions and then gave Wow a try when it came out. I've been a hardcore gamer most of my career slipping into casual mode when RL needed more attention. I was in top tier guild full of server and gamewide first. When I left EQ1 I was in the top 10 for my class and top 25 overall in the game courtesy magelo. I noticed close to my tenure that beating the game was fun only so many times. The uber loot drops only saded my thirst for sense of accomplishment. The actual content after some time wasn't the challenge as much as beating the content before others. After awhile even that felt like nothing more than an inevitable thing. It felt like each new raids was just some new graphics with a few new " dont stand in this" " run to here when X happens" "Offtank this Tank swap there blah blah blah" After you have done it enough you can break a encounter down into generic terms and put a strat together very quickly. Just no dynamic feel to theme park content for me anymore.

So after my short and brief tenure in WOW which felt like gaming easy mode I discovered Eve. Wow was I blown away there was no scripted content the players made the content. Each player was a individual dungeonmaster and the actions of each individual could have meaningful ripples all throughout the game. It really felt like a utopia for the gamer wanting a very real challenge. I can remember the first time I lost a ship that I had worked very hard to get I was pretty upset about it. It emboldened me to learn about PVP and how to be good at it. It has now been 7+ years since that time and I still love Eve. Eve however is produced by CCP a icelandic game designer Eve being there first game produced. Its great it has a great foundation but is poorly engineered from a gameplay standpoint and a software standpoint. Furthermore CCP has made several minor league mistakes along the way. The last one nearly killed the game. This caused a major break in trust with the players as it did with me. I started looking for the exit and for another game to go to. Sadly I found no game available that could replace the wonderful and cruel universe that was Eve.

I then started reading about games in development. Thats when I stumbled onto Titan and slowly started rummaging for any and every little detail I could find. Its funny I know several people that have always said could you imagine if Blizzard made a sandbox MMO "Ahhs and Oooohs from everyone". Blizzard is known for well engineered well thought out games with solid working as intended mechanics. This lead to more digging and finally stumbling onto this wonderful site.

A few personal observations-

I think the ThemePark MMO's are going to go the way of the dinosaur. Everyone has seen it and done it over and over and a good portion of the gamers I know describe the scenario I laid out in my first paragraph. SWTOR just came out and I have several friend who started day 1 level'd to 50 beat all the content in 30 days and were left twiddling there thumbs. Most of them have now cancelled and are already looking for the next game.

Player Derived Content > Scripted Content

I make the firm assertion that player derived content is far superior to scripted content. For many reasons but the main being it is fluid and dynamic whereas a veteran gamer tends to see scripted content as a set of mostly known variables that too a experienced eye are easy to master. For all intensive purposes it is nearly impossible to exactly contemplate what another human might do in a given situation this is the basis of my argument.

Sandbox vs Themepark

In a themepark game developers have to release new content in order to give the players new objectives and goals. Usually expansions will include higher ranks of levels and skills along with new items some new mechanics quest and dungeons. This is very demanding for a developer to develop new content lore items art and make it all fit into or expand onto the existing structure of the game. Furthermore as time goes on there are only so many new ways you can make jack spring from his box in a new fresh and entertaining fashion.

In a sandbox game developers release new tools and features which allow players to interact in new and different ways. New Items skills and levels and iteration on existing content to freshen it and balance it. The same lore artwork and development need to happen to release a expansion but it is less intensive as a themepark game. Your not trying to reinvent jacks box each time to entertain the user. Instead your giving the players new tools in which to make there own jack in the box.

Single Shard or Mega Shard

Its my opinion in a sandbox that the more players on a shard the better as the whole foundation of a sandbox is interaction and i interdependency to create immersion and content. However technology will only support shards of certain size without spending so much money that it effects ROI.

So with all the above said I will get to the actual meat of my post I just wanted to lay out my reasoning in the foreground to help everyone unerstand my reasoning. I fully admit that this has no bearing on what Titan will actually be other than that I feel my version would be a wildly successful game and highly marketable

Titan

Genre: Don't care as long as it feels accurate. Sci-Fi , Fantasy , Wild West , War Era makes no difference to me.

Style: Sandbox

Size: Single or Megashard

Layout: Rural / Industrial / Urban

All activities are possible in any zone PVP/PVE/Building/Alchemy/Reprocessing/Trading/Scamming/Stealing/Subversion

Rural - Completely player controlled with small islands of NPC faction controlled territory. Rural area would comprise 50% of the geography available. Bonuses would be given to the collection and harvesting of materials. READ: Farm and Fields Mines and Forest. All other activities are possible.

Industrial - Partially player controlled working in conjunction with ruling NPC faction. Players can band together with factions to try to encroach or defend NPC controlled territory. The aquisition of territory from other factions would leave the inhabitants & conquered NPC faction powerless to access the use of facilities in that area. Production and Refining/Reproccesing is bonused here . All other activities are possible. Industrial area would comprise 30% of the geography.

Urban Area - NPC controlled area that players can band together with ruling faction to gain added benefits. Urban areas would be a green zone where only consensual PVP can take place without the declaration of a formal desire to war against a individual or party. However assasination is possible at consideral expense. Urban areas would be the starting area for all players. Where they can learn in a safe enviroment about the game. Sturdy and robust tutorials would be available to all new players that will walk them through the paces of all the aspect of the game. Trade commerce research and alchemy would be bonused here. Although all activities are possible.

PVE: Enough scripted content to draw the stereotypical gamer into testing out the waters of a sandbox. The emphasis of rewards should be centered around materials in which to produce/sell/trade. PVE content would be scattered throughout the game where the greatest rewards were paid for the greatest risk. Risk would be based off of geographical location and difficulty level of the scripted or npc content.

Crafting: All items mods enhancements etc should be 100% craftable and reproccesable to there basic components by players.

Market/Auction: Player controlled fully integrated into the player UI accessable from any point in the game for purchasing selling. With pickup and drop off of bought/sold items at the origination of the order.

Alchemy - Customizeable goods and products produced by players via alchemy tradeable via auction system.

PVP - At least partial loss PVP if not full loss. Its a sandbox so in order to have a vibrant game where all archtypes are needed and dependant on eachother a sink needs to be made for the materials that are harvested and the goods produced the items bought sold and equipped by players.

PVP of all scales and sizes that can happen spontaneously or in a very organized fashion. For the sake of PVP or for a means to a end. For destruction defense glory conquest and retribution. With single and multiple tiered objectives that are dynamically controlled by players.

Robust avatar and vehicle based combat.

All items materials structures on non NPC origin should be destructable

Open sourced UI - With a very robust default UI. Allow the players to build the tools to best help them manipulate data in a fair and openly accessible fashion.

Charecter Layout / Progression - Starting out there would be many races that are customize with millions of different variables so much so that you really feel like your character is yours and yours alone..There would be no leveling instead there would be skills numbering in the thousands with ranks of proficiency and advanced tiers. How you would acquire them or in the order you acquire them is highly variable to the user. You would train by default at a certain rate over time however you can accelerate training via doing activities in the area you are training for. So for instance if your focus of gameplay is alchemy as you partake in that type of gameplay you would have accelerated learning of skills in that area. This would greatly reduce the impact of catching up to older players as the game goes on. With allowing older players still to be able to enjoy the same bonus. Furthermore players would be able to sell / trade characters for in-game currency and change the name of characters as well for a fee. Character recustimization would aso be available for a fee. I feel this will also soften the blow for new players entering a game where veteran players already exist.

Game Launch

When the game launched Urban areas would be fully setup to allow all types of gameplay with all the amenities available that NPC's would provide.

Industrial areas would have all the pieces available but it would take some effort to start the factories and get them running.

Rural would be rural with nothing but undiscovered country and geography. No markings no map no roads or paths. Only small remote islands of NCP territory that can be used as camps to rest or to stay for a period of rest before you forge on into the wilderness. Players will build the roads the paths. Players will conquer and claim territory and from that humble beginning they can start to build there own utopia. With everything from the plows to the roads to the buildings or structures in which they live. Other players can seek out to conquer eachothers territory and possessions or they can simply burn it all to the ground. However defenders will not be at complete mercy of invading hordes . Defenders can install defenses and through solid game mechanics multi-tiered objectives to break the grasp of a owners hold over there territory.

Riches can be earned and fortunes can be lost anywhere in the game including rural areas.

Iteration and Balance- Would be a cornerstone of the developers business plan. Constantly tweaking and pruning and planting new tools items and mechanics to keep the things fair balances fluid and immersive.

Titan a beautiful vibrant digital society where all of humanity's best and worst traits are brought to bare. It is the onus of the user to decide how he proceeds and in his actions he leaves ripples that colide with ripples of every other user shaping the world/universe/planet/continent ( insert metaphore based on genre here) in which they play.

Final note. I can literally go on for days about this but this is my first volley. Thanks for reading and feedback and discussion is encouraged. This is the basis of what I hope titan will be.

? Manny

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**Carlton Banks** · 2012-02-29

If it's even an ounce like WoW, fuck it

**Raketefrau** · 2012-02-29

I'm checking out Fallen Earth right now. It's not horrible.

I've tried WoW like 10 times now, and never been able to play it for more than a night. There's just something about it that makes me want to rip my eyes out. I'll never understand its appeal.

Is Jumpgate officially cancelled?

**Desert Punk** · 2012-02-29

Details still seem pretty sketchy, but I am intrigued I'm not sure this game is going to come out and OwnZone EvE a very complex game that's been worked on for years now. For all the mistakes that have been made and the games faults EvE is still a very unique game with nothing even coming close to it. I'm really struggling to believe another game developer in particular Blizzard are going to succeed at such a type of game.

**Vinata** · 2012-02-29

There's a game with a harsher PVP loss than EVE and that's Mortal Online. I don't know much about it other than the devs wanted a return to old school UO type PVP, and people can loot everything off of your corpse. It is fantasy though.

There's also the giant mecha game which was basically based off of EVE. It was ok the last time I played it, which was back in beta.

Both of those sound better to me than an MMO made by Blizzard.

**Don Peyote** · 2012-02-29

I last remember reading about "Titan" back when SC II was released. According to a graph I saw, It was a completely new Blizzard IP, slated for a 2013 release, but this was on the same graph that showed Heart of the Swarm coming out in 2011 and Diablo 3 in 2010, so I'd take that with a pinch of salt. At the time, searching for "Titan" and "Project Titan" yielded nothing, and I really just forgot about it until today.

It'll be interesting to see whether Blizzard can publish a successful MMO, or indeed, whether it will be released at all, because looking at the massive decline in WoW's popularity lately, they need a new cash cow pretty badly.

As for whether it is a potential EVE Killer, that remains to be seen, as we don't even know if it will be a space combat-based game

Originally Posted by Vinata

There's also the giant mecha game which was basically based off of EVE. It was ok the last time I played it, which was back in beta.

Perpetuum?

**Rer** · 2012-02-29

Perp is okay, doesn't have the draw that EVE's playerbase brings though. Not enough espionage and whatnot.

Part of me worries that Blizzard/Activision are gonna milk us dry with Titan though. They loooove the idea of subscriptions and micro-transactions.

**Hilmar Keller** · 2012-02-29

I quit Perp because of the lag issues, I was actually serious about making a go at it seeing as the world was pretty new and if I stuck to it I'd be on the road to bittervet status in no time.

I liked that instead of a training queue you get SP that you later spend on skills you want, such that your training queue is never wasted, and I also liked the addition of terrain mechanics (giving missiles a situational role in PVP/PVE), but even if the lag issues got fixed, traveling to do new missions or buy something was a serious pain in the ass. And then trying to find shortcuts over terrain which led to inexplicable invisible walls really rustled my jimmies. In hindsight, I'm pretty happy I stuck with EVE.

**Raketefrau** · 2012-02-29

Originally Posted by Hilmar Keller

I quit Perp because of the lag issues, I was actually serious about making a go at it seeing as the world was pretty new and if I stuck to it I'd be on the road to bittervet status in no time.

I liked that instead of a training queue you get SP that you later spend on skills you want, such that your training queue is never wasted, and I also liked the addition of terrain mechanics (giving missiles a situational role in PVP/PVE), but even if the lag issues got fixed, traveling to do new missions or buy something was a serious pain in the ass. And then trying to find shortcuts over terrain which led to inexplicable invisible walls really rustled my jimmies. In hindsight, I'm pretty happy I stuck with EVE.

So far I'm liking Fallen Earth much better than Perp.

What sucks is that all at once they:

1) Made it a Steam game
2) Launched a Mac beta client, and
3) Went free to play

So their playerbase jumped like 35-40% overnight, and their servers are crashing 2-3 times a day right now. They totally weren't prepared for the load. It took me 2 nights just to download all the updates with a fresh install.

I'm down for a post-apocalyptic MMO with an Eve-like market and crafting system, tho.

**Manny** · 2012-02-29

Originally Posted by Don Peyote

as we don't even know if it will be a space combat-based game

If you look at the website I linked there is a blog entry detailing the almost certainty its a space based MMO. If you look at the portfolios of the artist on the project nearly everyone of them have portfolios filled with sci-fi , spaceship type artwork as in dominated by that type of art. From what has been leaked and dug out there will be Avatar based combat (fps) and Spaceship combat. There has been a lil leaked concept art HERE

**Rer** · 2012-03-01

Fallen Earth's crafting is great, but the story starts to wane after awhile and the combat is meh..

**Matos** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by Manny

Words

? Manny

Themepark MMO's might have gone the way of the Dodo for you personally, thats completly different from them being financially successful.

The "Mainstream" is unlikely to be attracted to an EvE-like game. Even if EvE's client weren't terrible and the PvE a little bit more engaging I don't see how it would suddenly attract a huge player base.

If Blizzard is expecting it to overshadow WoW then they probably have done their analysis work and I'm convinced it won't be anything like EvE

Of course a EvE-like game without the flaws of EvE would be great, but I don't think this one will be it.

**Manny** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by Matos

Themepark MMO's might have gone the way of the Dodo for you personally, thats completly different from them being financially successful.

The "Mainstream" is unlikely to be attracted to an EvE-like game. Even if EvE's client weren't terrible and the PvE a little bit more engaging I don't see how it would suddenly attract a huge player base.

If Blizzard is expecting it to overshadow WoW then they probably have done their analysis work and I'm convinced it won't be anything like EvE

Of course a EvE-like game without the flaws of EvE would be great, but I don't think this one will be it.

M8 the proof is there look at Rift SWTOR WOW subs EQ2 etc Theme park games don't attract subs like they use too. Most people try other games realize its the same old shit and go back to there holdout game. Thats why you see new themepark games subs plummit and wow rebound once players consume the themepark content. The reasons why Eve hasn't had more mainstream success is:

Shitty Marketing compared to Blizzard ( who will run TV ads Chuck Norris , Mr T.)
Terrible new player experience
Learning curve
Terrible PVE
CCP

I was once a non PVP , PVE only bear from EQ,WOW till I found Eve. So the statement that themepark people couldn't like a Eve type game is pretty broad and highly disproven. People play MMOs for a few reason they like the idea of advancing a character and reaching goals. The social interaction that you get by working with / against others. I think a Sandbox MMO provides this better than any other template because in a sandbox you have more control over your direction in the game. Also goals seem more interesting and better unlike a themepark where after the next expansion all your uber purples are shit compared to basic greens.

**Tempestuous** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by Rer

Perp is okay, doesn't have the draw that EVE's playerbase brings though. Not enough espionage and whatnot.

Yeah Perp is a pretty interesting game, that right now is suffering from a very small playerbase, and some 'interesting' decisions by the dev team. I'd say the next expansion (apparently before easter) is pretty much make or break for them. It's a bit of a shame its not doing better, as its one of the few games that could actually have a similar level of depth as Eve.

**Manny** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by Tempestuous

Yeah Perp is a pretty interesting game, that right now is suffering from a very small playerbase, and some 'interesting' decisions by the dev team. I'd say the next expansion (apparently before easter) is pretty much make or break for them. It's a bit of a shame its not doing better, as its one of the few games that could actually have a similar level of depth as Eve.

Its going to take a major developer who isn't controlled by a publisher to rush the game to take Sandbox's mainstream "Enter Blizzard stage left" They have the money and investor confidence to make it happen.

**Carebears** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by Vinata

There's a game with a harsher PVP loss than EVE and that's Mortal Online. I don't know much about it other than the devs wanted a return to old school UO type PVP, and people can loot everything off of your corpse. It is fantasy though.

There's also the giant mecha game which was basically based off of EVE. It was ok the last time I played it, which was back in beta.

Both of those sound better to me than an MMO made by Blizzard.

Don't bother with Mortal Online, it's a train wreck with almost no players.

This little story says something about what kind of company is behind MO: http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/11...ms-of-service/

**Night** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by Manny

Its going to take a major developer who isn't controlled by a publisher to rush the game to take Sandbox's mainstream "Enter Blizzard stage left" They have the money and investor confidence to make it happen.

You assume that Blizzard is interested in sandbox games. They haven't talked about it, they don't have a history of it, their recent releases suggest they couldn't handle it.

**Rer** · 2012-03-02

Or, or, that they haven't made one yet, and thus once they do make one it will suddenly be the greatest game of all time.

I wouldn't put it past Activision.

**Manny** · 2012-03-02

Originally Posted by Night

You assume that Blizzard is interested in sandbox games. They haven't talked about it, they don't have a history of it, their recent releases suggest they couldn't handle it.

Blizzard's gimmick has always been rippiing off other emerging gametypes and taking it to the next level. WOW was blizzards take on EQ at the time.

**Christos Hendez** · 2012-03-02

Ill play it if GW2 doesnt hold my attention until then, in all fairness, it probably wont.

**Jambe** · 2012-03-02

WOW's subs are declining too, and they just announced the layoff of 600 employees.

http://www.infinity-universe.com/

Group seems small and the engine isn't complete yet. Saw something in their forum about a beta being ready mid-2013 at the earliest.

wrt Titan: IT WILL BE THE FIFTH COMING OF THE LORD JESU, SAYS I, AND ALL SHALL BE RIGHT IN MMO-LAND AFTER ITS ARRIVAL. More likely it will be a rehash of every other contemporary MMO with some trivial modifications. It seems unlikely to me that Blizzard would jump into a large-shard or unsharded MMO project given their history as a tried-and-true "beef up established genres"-style developer (ntm the fact that they've now got the guiding hand of Bobby Fucking Kotick).

I also don't know that EVE needs a successor. The only thing that's genuinely good about it is that it's an unsharded sandbox — most of the actual game is either middling-to-shit mediocre or the same tedious uninspired OCD crap you find in every other MMO.

Wasn't the speculation that Titan was gonna be an FPS/RPG hybrid? The fact that ships appear in concept art doesn't mean they'll be piloted ig.

**Raketefrau** · 2012-03-03

Originally Posted by Jambe

I also don't know that EVE needs a successor. The only thing that's genuinely good about it is that it's an unsharded sandbox — most of the actual game is either middling-to-shit mediocre or the same tedious uninspired OCD crap you find in every other MMO.

I don't want a successor, I want a competitor. Part of me died when I saw that plexes were actually called "dungeons" at times, because really, I was convincing myself that this wasn't just the same MMO crap wrapped up in a space skin. Because really? I need a space skin.

If I *ever* have to walk into some Tolkienesque tavern and get a quest from some fat barkeep in a medieval apron again I'm going to fucking shoot myself before I can hit CMD-Q. The whole fucking fantasy thing drives me batshit. There's been no creativity in it whatsoever since computers first had real graphical capabilities. Oh look, the elf chick has pointy ears and an awesome rack. And tbh, they're mostly just graphical MUDs anyway.

I'm doing alright in FE because it's post-apocalypse. I dig that. I've got a barefoot rastafarian riding around on a horse and scavenging for whatever he can find. It's not The Road, it's far from perfect, but the setting will take me a long way.

**Jambe** · 2012-03-03

I don't care wtf the setting is as long as the mechanics are solid and fun.

My point was merely that EVE should be mostly abandoned rather than emulated or succeeded... because it's mostly crap.

I would like a sandbox MMO where large portions of the game world are actively altered on a consistent and effectual level by writers who are both a) gamers and b) interested in the whatever genre it is (high or low fantasy, sci-fi, post-apoc, historical, whatever). The drama of player-generated war and trade is interesting but it gets as boring and grindy as any other endeavor without regular influxes of new stories, places to see, tools to use, etc.

I would also like such an MMO presented as a 6DoF spaceflight sim with destructible environments a-la Miner Wars. Like that'll happen...

**Matos** · 2012-03-05

Originally Posted by Manny

M8 the proof is there look at Rift SWTOR WOW subs EQ2 etc Theme park games don't attract subs like they use too. Most people try other games realize its the same old shit and go back to there holdout game. Thats why you see new themepark games subs plummit and wow rebound once players consume the themepark content.

Attachment 2618
Wow has still over 10 Million subs going after that Chart. It might be dying but it will take long for it to drop down to current EvE-Levels. Everquest is dying since 10 Years or so and I assume its still profitable to keep the Servers running

People play through the Content get bored and quit. Its simply the Model of Themeparks

A Game that sells 2 Million boxes and dies 5 Months later might be considered a failure from a Player perspective. That doesn't mean that it didn't pay off financially.

On the other hand the only successful Sandbox MMO I know about is EvE with ~400k active Subs. I have no idea about the profit these games make, but to me it doesn't look like the idea of Themepark MMO's is dead

Of course all that doesn't mean a Sandbox can't be more successful then WoW. If someone will pull that off most likely it will be Blizzard but I won't hold my Breath