Endie's post made everyone's argument against the titan nerf irrelevant.
Endie's post made everyone's argument against the titan nerf irrelevant.
Meh, it's not a bad argument in and of itself.Originally Posted by awy
However, the retarded mewling of Raiden, ncDOT, and a large proportion of PL members will ensure it never gains an ounce of traction no matter how eloquently put by the small proportion of PL guys who don't come off sounding like total social-reject turbonerds.
Do I understand correctly that you're saying that any change that pisses off older players enough so that they quit (or reduce the active number of accounts that they run), as long as that drop in subscriptions can be balanced by an increase in the number of subscriptions from goons recruiting on SA, that that is a healthy state of balance for the game? I'm skeptical.Manny, I see your concern but the problem you have is that of course CCP will favour the larger group in the long run. Whether through subs or through the proxy of plexes, every player pays them money to play. You're asking them to provide tools with which less subscribers can make more subscribers unhappy.
Goons go out there and sell the game of Eve Online to their friends on the SA boards. Since my last recruitment post we have gone from 2,500 to 3,500 waffe members, with old people returning as we tell them how the game is on the right path, and new ones being drawn in by the enthusiastic commentary of people posting in the thread in the downtimes between bouts of pointing and laughing at Ordo Garr. That's already the equivalent of 1/3 of all titan pilots cancelling their subs and walking away by itself. Allowing for churn, it's probably just over a hundred grand a year from extra subs (of which I see exactly zip)
According to Turbefield's stats a far smaller 10% increase across the CFC alone would replace the subscriptions of every titan pilot, both subbed and unsubbed, should they walk away and unsub forever. According to the figures cited by Jogyn then that same 10% increase across the CFC would pay for the cancelled subs of every single member of PL and NCdot put together. Woops!
The days when Eve was a hobby or a social experiment of its devs, or that they would change the game consciously to favour their playstyle or that of their friends, are gone. They want the person with 3 million skillpoints to be able to be hooked on the nullsec Great Game that keeps people playing for years, to get dragged into the storyline. And they know that that is virtually impossible when those players discover that their ship matters zilch as soon as 40 titans cyno in with a bunch of supercarriers to rep them.
Your alliance, NcDot and others don't want newbies, and that's cool. But it means you're not speaking to those two-week-old new players and you're not exposed to the Naked Lunch moment when they work out that they can do everything right, orbit the primary at the right range, stay out of smartbomb range on the primary, watch for yellow-boxing, broadcast for reps as soon as a lock is applied, and yet still absolutely inevitably die as soon as one single person just presses one button.
But we do talk to those people and we bring in a tidal flood of them to enliven the game and provide content and fund the development of new features and CCP are finally working out that if four or five hundred dudes, most of whom will in any case be burned out within 15 months, want to bleat about large "blobs" of paying customers having more fun than them then it's still going to be sayonara titans in the long run.
Lets not split hairs. The only people who would benefit from such a dynamic are the political leadership of gs who would like to see opposing players quit eve. It's just sort of sad that you think you should do that by whining about balance to the game developer than actually trying to grief us out in the game.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/UhWbu.gif[/IMG]
lmao at ncdot and raiden going on a propaganda war against goons
Is this a PL poster seriously complaining about another entity metagaming rather than griefing players "in the game."
Lordy, lordy.
Hardly need a propaganda campaign against Goons. Everyone already hates Goons. Goons hate Goons.
[05:28:32] Damienwhat Solette > friend said, if only they didn't have those 2 falcons there, i said they have 3, and he said that just says they don't want to do anything fair, just want to be dicks about it like not normal dicks but big black huge cocks
No Malcore I'm saying that CCP now realise that game features which benefit 0.3% of the subscribers at the cost of 99.7% of the subscribers, only a few of whom are goons, makes for bad business.
My blog: http://endie.net Twitter: EndiePosts
If I forget thee, O Goonfleet dot com, let my right hand forget her typing.
Endie, do you actually believe that the changes announced by Grayscale will actually do anything, other than give CCP (and perhaps Mittens) a bit of goodwill for a short period (until the next engagement with a bunch of Titans)?
I don't think anyone (who actually enjoys this horrid game) disagrees with your post - but the changes really do one thing - delay the onset of damage. They don't do anything worthwhile, and they show that CCP is willing to do stupid things (still) that don't make sense for the game as a whole, for a moment of (they hope) good publicity.
By that logic everything should be balanced around highsec where literally 90% of the player base reside.
But then afk mining and mission running wouldn't make for EPIC pretty trailers, would it?
They've already said they're reviewing the mechanics of the proposed change. Look to the stated intent of the nerf, and their stated intent for future changes. That's what matters, and that's what's being discussed.
Look upon my words, ye badposters, and despair~
The hard fact is that the fault lies with the people who used Titans to annihilate subcaps en masse, and then had the poor judgement to laugh about it, congratulate themselves, and keep doing it. If RDN, NCdot and PL hadn't gone whole-hog abusing an obviously broken mechanic, this nerf would have never happened.
They may tell themselves that the inarguable imbalance of blapping titans was a sign of their 'skill' or 'superiority' - the same excuses offered forth throughout the history of the Titan, justifying Remote Doomsdays, AoE Doomsdays, etc etc. The same old guard players, the same old guard excuses, the same old-guard entitlement.
Ultimately, the nemesis of titans was the poor impulse control of their own pilots - the inability, when faced with what amounted to a free bar, not to drink themselves into blundering violence and to assault the other guests.
[twitter]themittani[/twitter]
I think that they represent part of a process. I think that they are useful steps. But CCP have made it clear that their goal is to stop supers determining the outcome of the subcap battle, so I'm quite sanguine about people demonstrating further nerfs that are needed in the coming weeks. It'll not make that coming rain any less hard.
My blog: http://endie.net Twitter: EndiePosts
If I forget thee, O Goonfleet dot com, let my right hand forget her typing.
yeah baby
you tell them how its their own fault mittens YOU TELL EM
bitches shouldn't have worn such short skirts
[twitter]themittani[/twitter]
YOU GO OUT IN PUBLIC WEARING A BLAP FIT AND USING STRONG DROP LIKE THAT
WHAT DID YOU THINK WAS GONNA HAPPEN LIL MISSY?
HUH?
[twitter]themittani[/twitter]
Could say the exact same thing about 1000 maelstroms (it would be .6% of subscribers instead of .3%) but that doesn't make it a correct extrapolation of eve game mechanic's effects on the players.
Just to be clearly, I'm not against re-balancing null sec combat (the opposite actually - the more they change the better), what I'm against are pointless nerfs that have the effect of making the game less interesting by removing options from players. I want to see tech 2 heavy tackle carriers with 100km capital only warp disruptors, tech 2 heavy neuting dreads (base neut amount on sig radius of target), more and useful t2 battleships, additional t3s, etc. If they want to nerf several classes of ships into oblivion, give us something new to play with.
The only person actually mad about this change is Centra Spike and only because he wont able to able to DD carriers on stations anymore.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/UhWbu.gif[/IMG]
First they came for the Super Carrier drone bay, and I did not speak out for I was not a SC pilot.
Then they came for the Titan blap tracking, and I did not speak out for I was not a Titan pilot.
Then they came for the Legion scooping Orca, and there was no one left to speak out for me
I'm reposting this here because it was buried in like 81 pages of that terrible Eve-O thread:
Which is actually a repost of a post I made when the sub cap DD went away.
And Malcore, I've never successfully DD'd a carrier on a station, ever, because fuck docking and fuck no lowsec DDs. In fact I've only used the DD on a hostile capital once since the change.
Also, yeah Endie is right, Titan pilots quitting Eve could be offset by a big Goon recruitment drive. But the issue (for me, at least) isn't that my (3) OP dick-cannons are getting nerfed, it's more the fact that CCP has no fucking idea what to do with them.
Well, maybe you shouldn't have abused an obviously broken mechanic to the point that there was an out-of-cycle nerf. Whoops!
[twitter]themittani[/twitter]
Well. All I have to say is, if they are going to nerf ships into oblivion, due to excessive numbers, shouldn't the rifter be next?
As for replacing bittervets with goon recruits, are there really that many total retards left out there?
You certainly qualify by that standard.
Sorry Andski, I cannot bring myself down to your level, I don't have a shovel and drill....
Manny, I see your concern but the problem you have is that of course CCP will favour the larger group in the long run. Whether through subs or through the proxy of plexes, every player pays them money to play. You're asking them to provide tools with which less subscribers can make more subscribers unhappy.
Goons go out there and sell the game of Eve Online to their friends on the SA boards. Since my last recruitment post we have gone from 2,500 to 3,500 waffe members, with old people returning as we tell them how the game is on the right path, and new ones being drawn in by the enthusiastic commentary of people posting in the thread in the downtimes between bouts of pointing and laughing at Ordo Garr. That's already the equivalent of 1/3 of all titan pilots cancelling their subs and walking away by itself. Allowing for churn, it's probably just over a hundred grand a year from extra subs (of which I see exactly zip
According to Turbefield's stats a far smaller 10% increase across the CFC alone would replace the subscriptions of every titan pilot, both subbed and unsubbed, should they walk away and unsub forever. According to the figures cited by Jogyn then that same 10% increase across the CFC would pay for the cancelled subs of every single member of PL and NCdot put together. Woops!
The days when Eve was a hobby or a social experiment of its devs, or that they would change the game consciously to favour their playstyle or that of their friends, are gone. They want the person with 3 million skillpoints to be able to be hooked on the nullsec Great Game that keeps people playing for years, to get dragged into the storyline. And they know that that is virtually impossible when those players discover that their ship matters zilch as soon as 40 titans cyno in with a bunch of supercarriers to rep them.
Your alliance, NcDot and others don't want newbies, and that's cool. But it means you're not speaking to those two-week-old new players and you're not exposed to the Naked Lunch moment when they work out that they can do everything right, orbit the primary at the right range, stay out of smartbomb range on the primary, watch for yellow-boxing, broadcast for reps as soon as a lock is applied, and yet still absolutely inevitably die as soon as one single person just presses one button.
But we do talk to those people and we bring in a tidal flood of them to enliven the game and provide content and fund the development of new features and CCP are finally working out that if four or five hundred dudes, most of whom will in any case be burned out within 15 months, want to bleat about large "blobs" of paying customers having more fun than them then it's still going to be sayonara titans in the long run.
That's a beautiful and eloquent way of framing your argument in such a way that benefits your coalitions modus operandus. I think you will find that end-game players control a multitude of accounts myself personally 11 (Titan , SC , Main PVP , Cyno , Cyno , Spy , Supercap Spy , Spy , Supercap Spy , Training Acct (income) , Training Acct (income) ). I know im in the upper tier but most end-game and/or veteran players run 3 accounts min. So the whole argument of the parallel comparison of 1:1 on new player vs player retention is not completely accurate or relevant. This is not to say that enticing new players isn't important in-fact it is very important. I would say player retention is very important because Eve had a very flat growth period (Tyrranis , Incarna) and the fact that players stayed (retention) is the reason why CCP still exist. Exceedingly I would also point out that players that did stay are much more important than players you admit to "tell them how the game is on the right path" as us players who stuck it out have shown customer loyalty. Futhermore there has been no abuse of mechanics there has simply been use of mechanics. The same way that your coalition takes the Maelstrom and the 1400mm howitzer which by themselves are of no great threat and then pairs them with 500 more of the same. You aren't abusing game mechanics you are simply using a game mechanic to net yourselves whatever edge you can.
In the end were all just people sitting on the otherside of a monitor looking for escape/entertainment from our otherwise normal lives. Sure some will be eccentrics , homosexuals , substance abuse addicts , criminals but mostly were just people no matter which coalition , alliance , corp we belong too. We all play this game for entertainment we all like reaching some type of goal which Eve delivers a very diverse palate of opportunities to set/reach goals on the individual and cooperative level. Every game has End-Game content Eve being a sandbox is more open-ended however the principal still applies it just applies differently on the basis of what aspect of gameplay you enjoy in Eve. For nullsec PVP End-Game has been defined as Supercapitals where if you Invest lots of skillpoints and ISK you can obtain one. The ships tenacity and offense scales off of the investment and as all ships in Eve it is destructible (risk). Does die as easily as a frigate cruiser battlecruiser battleship or regular capital ? No of course not , it has much higher tenacity and offense that's the entire point. Can it be countered? Yes of course in a multitude of ways.
The problem friend is not the ship it is not the players in which use them or how the players use them. The problem lays in CCP's shortsightedness they allowed the acquisition of isk the ease of logistics and laze'affaire (sp?) of policing bots to create a environment where these ships were easily acquired. Now after multiple nerfs that were supposed to be the Death blow to supers we are right back to where we were last year banging our heads on the proverbial NERF wall hoping and praying that this round of nerfs will fix the problem. Let me save you the trouble friend it will not. Instead it will only encourage us the users of Supercaps to acquire more to reach critical mass needed to gain/re-gain our edge. We will do so because of the overarching systemic problem in Eve. Isk and Logistics are easy my paticular alliance takes in .5 trillion isk per month off of just 1 income stream. No my friend we will just throw isk wildly at this issue to remain competitive.
Endie friend you wish for true game balance then please steer your efforts in the correct direction. Unless the glee of shortsighted supercap pilots gets you off at which rate GG enjoy.
? Manny
waddup goonfleet, I randomly remember hydrosan today and thought I would check in and see how goonfleet is doing. Which turns out out to be exactly the same as what you guys were doing like 4 years ago , getting titans nerfed.
also can i get hooked up with a goonfleet.com account or something so i can post stuff i don't actually want to play this game but i miss posting in spyad
laissez-faire
let me tell you about french
to be fair I think it's the best part about the devblog's result: finding out which supercap owners are really nothing but dumb babbies and to laugh at themUnless the glee of shortsighted supercap pilots gets you off
Remove titans a replace them with faction and tech2 carriers and dreads. Supercapital balance achieved? check. Titans pilots moderately happy with new space dicks? check. Game more balanced and fun for the average grunt? check. Less tears and bad posting? check. Sounds like win win winning to me :sun:
There's nothing worse than having a good idea for a post not being good enough to pull it off :negative:
Lorren Titans and Supercarriers serve a very cruicial and needed role in Eve. They are the evil big mean bully and when you slay them you are elated. On the flip of the coin when you get one or use one you are elated. The thing that diminishes that feeling or makes it fleeting is in which the ease they are purchased , replaced , built , acquired. Ttians are not the villain you deserve but they are the villain you need.
bring on the supertitanvoltrons. you need 1 of each faction to form.
Sadly this will be the case.
In retrospect and reflection I would like to send a heartfelt thank you out to CCP Greyscale. His post has created desperation in the titan market inevitable firesales and deflation of value in the ships. All of which will make the task of further armament easier and cheaper.
I only want to remove titans, supercarriers seem reasonably balanced and I would actually support giving them a battleship sized standard drone bay. I might even want an Aeon or Wyvern someday even though I swore it off once
There's nothing worse than having a good idea for a post not being good enough to pull it off :negative:
The "clouds of Maelstroms blotting out the sun" argument falls flat in this case (claiming it somehow excludes a majority of players) simply because a 'Maelstrom fleet' includes, accommodates, and requires logis, recons, dictors, hictors, support battlecruisers, antisupport battlecruisers, pimp-fit T3s and command ships, shitfit cruiser garbage, Noctii and haulers, interceptors and tackle frigs. There is a place for the 80M SP all-V's badass and a place for the day 2 newbie scout calling out rats on the gates.
Most of the time a blappo titan fleet doesn't even have a place for shield supers.
Oh, and I'd love to see some of the shiptypes you talk of, but there are many balance / use case issues to work out, and hell they just gave us these sweetass tier 3 BCs
Except there are so many of them now that killing one is "meh".
Here is an idea: A titan has no offensive capability. Instead, for any damage applied to any ship in the fleet, before resists, 10-30% or so of that damage (based on some titan skill) is applied instead to the titan itself, before the titan's own resists. Titan must be on grid, can be in a POS (still takes the redirected damage), can be repped. No titan with <95% of shield/armor/hull can swap out of fleet booster, and logoffs remain in the slot (and continue to take damage) until they disappear from space. Warping off or otherwise leaving grid cancels the damage redirect (you still can't swap out of fleet booster.)
Someone explain the flaws in this, I'm sure there are some real ones and not just elite PvP wanking (the Rag is probably fucked)
E: also this could be a nerf to "the blob" since the damage from one bombing run multiplied by 200 hulls could be laffo to your booster
You make my point exactly. This will only worsen and in 6 months we will be right back where we are now.
"End Game"? What, are your Supers some type of sweet EPIX? Where do they drop?
EVE doesn't have an end game.
The end game of eve is political clout
the winner becomes King Of Space
he loser raises another man's children in Maryland
This is maybe the most depressing piece of shit thread I have ever read.
Is the Mittani seriously hating on people who "abuse" their titans? Its not abuse, its having the balls to field our supers whenever we can, which is more than can be said for the rest of the supercap pilots in EVE. If you got to play with your supers all the time, this matter would be much, much different.
It's a great idea for a few per fleet because you would want stacking penalties at the very least. However you have just alienated 95% of all other existing titans of which players have millions of SP invested and tons of isk. Perhaps a opt-in reimbursement of SP and the ability to reprocess the hull?
A supercap fleet without an accompanying support fleet is entirely useless at anything besides shooting structures or causing AAA to leave the field. Most of the times where we got lots of kills with supers was when we sandwiched them between a support fleet and a bunch of titans, giving our enemies nowhere to run. Even with a supercapital heavy fleet you still need a ton of dictors, hictors, anti-tackle t3, recons/bombers/cov-ops to provide cynos, scouts, etc. Any tight fleet comp plays to certain strengths and reduces the variety of ships fielded. We use less variety in our subcap fleets.
Most of the time the alpha maelstrom fleet doesn't even have a place of an armor tanking apoc (see how stupid this sounds?).
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/UhWbu.gif[/IMG]
Mpozy & Hralti still kings of K.com
How often do Supers die in an actual combat scenario? Not you guys bumping them out of a POS with Machs or someone catching a ratting SC. Very seldom is there an interesting BR about a dead Super; usually it's just a gank.
Flying a ship with several million hitpoints in a fleet full of ships with several million hitpoints and spies on your enemies' comms doesn't take courage mate
Only those brave few who drop their supers solo with little intel have courage
How often do you die sitting on the osoggur gate blaping haulers?
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/UhWbu.gif[/IMG]
Ever blap a dictor with a Titan? A cruiser?
It's your fault. You brought this about. You can try to deny it all you want, but it is the case. vOv
[twitter]themittani[/twitter]
Keep hammering away Mittens I hear if you fling shit randomly against canvas eventually it might look like art.
Edit* Sorry that was pretty combative let me rephrase. Mittens is it possible that if you fling shit at canvas that it might be misinterpreted as art?
Ever blapped a tengu before logis could lock it with a 500 man maelstrom fleet? An Abaddon?
It's your fault. You brought this about. You can try to deny it all you want, but it is the case. vOv
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/UhWbu.gif[/IMG]
Maybe if you stopped being so bad and actually managed to kill some titans they wouldn't seem so OP. v0v
A thousand kings of space, typing on a thousand computers, posting on a thousand different forum accounts, might one day produce an argument without fallacy.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/UhWbu.gif[/IMG]
You only have ~3-4 months of history to talk about. The new aggression mechanics mean that a mistake with a supercap fleet could now spell disaster. How was a supercap bloodbath supposed to happen when they could all log off and limit their losses?
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