Apartheid in EVE - discussions about racism and sexism in EVE. Free or hate speech?

**Iratus** · 2012-03-07

Originally Posted by Hilmar Keller

Louis CK says that being white is great because there's literally no racial epithet for 'white' that could possibly offend him. Go ahead, try.

Gringo.

**Securitas** · 2012-03-10

I've never understood how people can be offended by words unless they are personally directed. For example, if my best friend gets super mad and calls me a worthless faggot, I might care, but it's not the word, it's the fact that it's personally directed at me. On the other hand if I'm out in public and I hear someone say faggot or someone I doesn't know call me a faggot, I'll think to myself "Gee, that's kinda rude" but otherwise it won't affect me at all.

To be fair faggot has a far less bloody history than nigger but still, most people living today don't have any connection to the bloodshed/tyranny of the past.

**Malcanis** · 2012-03-11

Originally Posted by Hilmar Keller

Louis CK says that being white is great because there's literally no racial epithet for 'white' that could possibly offend him. Go ahead, try.

"White Devil"

"Gwailo"

**July** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by Iratus

Gringo.

I'm not sure if this is a joke but gringo isn't actually just for whites. It's just a spanish slang word Latin Americans use when referring to foreigners, usually those from the United States. When it's used derogatorily it's usually anti-American/foreigner sentiment and not related to race at all.

**Afr1can** · 2012-04-02

Well the true meaning for Nigger was a term for those who worked for - nothing and lived for their keep (food, water, got shagged and sleeping mat). Which had nothing to do with colour. Niggers where used all the around the world, just came into prominence when the Slave trade kicked off.

Don't forget Niggers kept Niggers you know wasn't just white peeps slaving blacks/browns peeps, but hey what do I know as I am a Nigga 100% Nigerian.

I never feel awkward or feel threatened when I hear on comms Niggers, Nigga shoot the nigga, what ever as I know and they know it's just banter.
My wife's half Italian/Irish, I am Nigerian and my offspring are good looking mummyfuckers tbfh, so who gives a fuck I don't as long as I am fucking my Nigga's and have a few late sessions on eve without wify aggro - life is good.

By the way anyone watch the movie with Mel Gibson - Apolcalypto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypto minus the camera crew no white devils around then you know.

Another edit when Nigeria get knocked out the World or Africa cup, I suddenly become Welsh again and love Rugby once again.
6 Nations woot woot.

**Grogoth** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by Afr1can

Well the true meaning for Nigger. Which had nothing to do with colour.

Let me tell you about the word negro literally meaning black, you stupid piece of shit

**xutech** · 2012-04-02

In the world of internet gaming it's not as meaningful; but you're obviously under 30 if you can hear the word nigger and not get ready for a fight or a sprint.

**hellkyte** · 2012-04-14

Yeah honestly maybe it's because I'm from the south but no matter how much I hear a bunch of white kids on the internet work on "taking it back" that word still bothers the fuck out of me, and I think (at least where I am) you would be naive to think that you could say that anywhere there were more black people than you and not be in route to a serious ass kicking.

I remember one time at a bbq there was this young white kid and, this was somewhat recently after Clerks 2 came out, he started going off on the whole Porch Monkey thing. There was a black guy there, who he assumed would find it just as funny as him. Dude gave him 2 strikes and on the third time the dude just got him in a headlock and started beating the shit out of him. Ok actually I don't remember if it was 3 strikes I put that in there just for effect.

**Grath** · 2012-04-14

Originally Posted by hellkyte

I remember one time at a bbq there was this young white kid and, this was somewhat recently after Clerks 2 came out, he started going off on the whole Porch Monkey thing. There was a black guy there, who he assumed would find it just as funny as him. Dude gave him 2 strikes and on the third time the dude just got him in a headlock and started beating the shit out of him. Ok actually I don't remember if it was 3 strikes I put that in there just for effect.

That guy (the one that put the kid in the headlock) was a nigger, plain and simple. A word was more powerful than he was.

You see somehow you see him as justified, but if those same people and that man had been standing around and he started dropping white racial slurs (cracker or whatever or telling jokes about how bad white people are at sports, idk, I have no idea what words are supposed to hurt as far as race goes) and those white people beat his ass for it, you probably would be one of those people who thought the white people were guilty of a hate crime.

The chances that a black man who was around at the time of clerks 2, able to beat somebody up, and at a bbq, was ever subjected to the rage inducing racism that was around when racism was an actual problem are pretty fucking slim. He's mad about something that has absolutely not ever effected him personally in any way and literally just wanted to mentally condition some little white boy not to say a word that bothered him.

Not only was he a nigger but he was a faggot too, riding off of a 200 year old problem that was solved long ago.

**hellkyte** · 2012-04-15

I'm not going to defend his actions. I don't understand the motivation behind, I don't think it will ever be possible to from my perspective. But if someone said something to me that lacked any real content other than that it offended me (like calling my mother a whore), and I told them repeatedly to stop, well...they had it coming.

But that's not really the point. Your comment "riding off of a 200 year old problem that was solved long ago". I'll assume by "the problem" you mean slavery. Slavery isn't the issue for most of them (aside from New Black Panther jackasses), institutional racism is waaayyyyy more recent than that. The civil rights movement is only 50 years old, and it's not like it solved all the problems overnight. This means that most blacks in america have either been exposed to institutional racism or are only one generation removed from it, hearing stories about it first hand from their parents or grandparents. For that reason it's still a sensitive subject for most blacks.

Even if slavery was the main issue, your attitude of "it's an old problem get over it" kind of flies in the face of world full of examples about how humans can feel about shit. Almost every Asian has some level of hatred for the Japanese. Israel is still a problem. Pakistan and India are still at each other's throats. Greeks and Turks still fucking hate each other. The falkland islands are still contentious. Armenians still want their homeland. And since the issue at hand here is slavery, if you think that north-south relations in the United States are not still to this day affected by the civil war, you have not spent enough time in the south. Better yet walk through Atlanta with a shirt making a pro-Sherman joke.

It goes the other direction as well. As a nation the United States is still to this day proud of what we did way back in 1776. History matters to people.

Understand that I'm not saying that these things are rational. I'm saying that I understand why people are affected by it. And so I avoid it, because I see absolutely nothing to be gained by taking a stance on the irrationality of something that doesn't affect me in the slightest. The main reason it bothers me so much in EvE is that racial slurs are the lowest common denominator for shit talking. If you want to talk shit to someone it seems like the standard line in EvE is to call them a nigger faggot etc etc. The human language has created this great tapestry for belittling someone, for making them understand that in the scheme of things they are a bigger failure than AOL, and less significant than a Budweiser brewmasters opinion in Germany. I mean shit Grath, you are a god damned wordsmith with taking the piss out of someone.

Edit: Just thought of this. In a weird way these things only ever get resolved through time and forgetfulness. Like the Atlanta thing. If you walked into a bar wearing some pro-Sherman shit with a bunch of 20 somethings from Atlanta they either wouldn't get it or wouldn't care. But if you do it next to their father, or their Grandfather they may sit them down and explain to them why they should be offended by it. In a way it helps to perpetuate the problem. Look at Dave Chappelle. A big part of why he quit his show, which looked at racism from a whimsical and anti-PC perspective, was because his own family/elders sat down and passed on their own irrational emotional issues to him, in response to what he did himself.

**jeffraider** · 2012-04-18

saying nigger is funny

i giggled a bit just typing that

**Hilmar Keller** · 2012-04-18

**penifSMASH** · 2012-11-02

2012 C0ven is the modern-day equivalent of their 1938 retard Pollack ancestors that would charge headfirst at Nazi tank battalions with malnourished cavalry. Watch as they get Zyklon-B'd by PL daily like their pigdog Jewish grandfathers in Auschwitz.

**sladislov** · 2012-11-02

Necroing a thread, but i like dead things.

Fun fact: Apartheid is a unique word, and unable to be translated in any other
language. And it originated in the netherlands. Since we basically invented
the slave trade.

Netherlands Stronk,

**Solar Fleet Best Fleet** · 2012-11-02

Dat profile pic/post combination.

**Don Peyote** · 2012-11-02

That's super fascinating but why did you have to necro this thread about it???

**lothos** · 2012-11-02

Originally Posted by penifSMASH

2012 C0ven is the modern-day equivalent of their 1938 retard Pollack ancestors that would charge headfirst at Nazi tank battalions with malnourished cavalry. Watch as they get Zyklon-B'd by PL daily like their pigdog Jewish grandfathers in Auschwitz.

This post + your sig make lol.

**ohnoes** · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by penifSMASH

2012 C0ven is the modern-day equivalent of their 1938 retard Pollack ancestors that would charge headfirst at Nazi tank battalions with malnourished cavalry. Watch as they get Zyklon-B'd by PL daily like their pigdog Jewish grandfathers in Auschwitz.

2012 PL is the modern-day equivalent of 1876 United States. Immensly rich, astoundingly powerful, and still can't eliminate a bunch of Indians roaming in Montana...

**bobbechk** · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by ohnoes

2012 PL is the modern-day equivalent of 1876 United States. Immensly rich, astoundingly powerful, and still can't eliminate a bunch of Indians roaming in Montana...

Jita would be the equivalent of Las Vegas?

Propaganda · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by penifSMASH

2012 C0ven is the modern-day equivalent of their 1938 retard Pollack ancestors that would charge headfirst at Nazi tank battalions with malnourished cavalry. Watch as they get Zyklon-B'd by PL daily like their pigdog Jewish grandfathers in Auschwitz.

WW2 started in 1939 ....

In 1938 Poland and Germany where somewhat allies.

And you are tard.

**Finiks** · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by Propaganda

In 1938 Poland and Germany where somewhat allies.

Until Polaks decided to invade peaceful Germany and poor germans were forced to counter-attack.

Oh and arguing with Penifsmash isn't particulary healthy. Just saying.

**SokoleOko** · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by penifSMASH

2012 C0ven is the modern-day equivalent of their 1938 retard Pollack ancestors that would charge headfirst at Nazi tank battalions with malnourished cavalry. Watch as they get Zyklon-B'd by PL daily like their pigdog Jewish grandfathers in Auschwitz.

GJ, you've made me register on Kugu after 4 years of playing Eve, just to reply to this most moronic and unacceptable post I can remember.

1) WW2 started in 1939, not 1938. Every kid in elementary school in Poland knows that yet apparently this basic knowledge eluded you.

2) Polish cavalry never charged tanks. During defence of Poland back in 1939 there were few "old-school" cavarly charges against German rear-echelons because it was fun. As per rule, Polish cavarly "moved on horses, fought on foot" and not with lances, but with modern machine guns and anti-tank rifles. Since cavalry brigades were considered the elite of Polish Army, those troops were never "malnourished".

3) Jews were important minority in Poland (8,6% of population in 1931). They've considered Poland as their homeland because Polish people never persecuted anyone based on religion. In fact, first leaders of Israel were born in Poland and spoke Polish fluently. They were by no means "pigdog" to us.

4) "Pollack" is as offensive as "Nigger".

5) I can safely bet that many c0ven players ancestors where in fact victims of nazi concentration camps. Can a sane-minded person threat to "Zyklon" them in game?

Look, I'm not above using stereotypes to taunt enemy in Eve. Yes, I do smack on local too. But your post crosses the line between "inteligent taunting" and borderline racial offensiveness that should simply be unacceptable to any reader - Pole or no Pole.

Also about your avatar on this forum - do you realise that displaying Nazi symbols (outside of historic reconstructions) is considered a crime in many countries?

**Bobby Bobster** · 2012-11-03

Actually World War 2 started in 1938 like Penif said.

As England, France were cowardly fags who didn't want another world war and allowed Germany to steal half of Czechoslavakia. That was the real start of the war. Or you could claim the annexation of Austria was the start given that it violated all of the restrictions placed on Germany after WW1.

TLDR: Germany started the 2nd world war in 1938, but as the rest of Europe were stupid, lazy cunts they didn't realise until 1939.

**tgbyhn** · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by KingOfTheDaves

As England, France were cowardly fags who didn't want another world war and allowed Germany to steal half of Czechoslavakia. That was the real start of the war. Or you could claim the annexation of Austria was the start given that it violated all of the restrictions placed on Germany after WW1.

Or when the ink dried on the Treaty of Versailles in 1919, leaving Germany embittered and impoverished, and stripped of territory with large German populations giving rise to 1930s revanchism, and also broke up Austria-Hungary and the Russian Empire into a multitude of smaller states that left Germany the "big kid on the block" in Mitteleuropa and either easy prey for, or easily coerced into aligning with a rearmed, revitalized Germany by the mid-1930s.

What you've described, Sudetenland, the Anschluss (and the Rhineland remilitarization and Saarland reincorporation that immediately proceeded those) would be better described as catalysts toward war. The more Hitler's stomach was filled, the bigger his eyes grew.

**SokoleOko** · 2012-11-03

Well, "official" date is still 1st of September 1939 and clearly, Polish Cavarly didn't wage war back in 1938

**Don Peyote** · 2012-11-03

I will start World War III in 2012 if you all don't shut the fuck up about World War II and stop falling for penif's trolls

**Omeega** · 2012-11-03

To re-use Penif's wise words, looks like someone just charged head first into an obvious historical troll.

**R0ot** · 2012-11-03

Oh wow so we've gotten to the point of comparing to real life wars. The circle or retard is complete. GG

**zenthral** · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by SokoleOko

GJ, you've made me register on Kugu after 4 years of playing Eve, just to reply to this most moronic and unacceptable post I can remember.

1) WW2 started in 1939, not 1938. Every kid in elementary school in Poland knows that yet apparently this basic knowledge eluded you.

2) Polish cavalry never charged tanks. During defence of Poland back in 1939 there were few "old-school" cavarly charges against German rear-echelons because it was fun. As per rule, Polish cavarly "moved on horses, fought on foot" and not with lances, but with modern machine guns and anti-tank rifles. Since cavalry brigades were considered the elite of Polish Army, those troops were never "malnourished".

3) Jews were important minority in Poland (8,6% of population in 1931). They've considered Poland as their homeland because Polish people never persecuted anyone based on religion. In fact, first leaders of Israel were born in Poland and spoke Polish fluently. They were by no means "pigdog" to us.

4) "Pollack" is as offensive as "Nigger".

5) I can safely bet that many c0ven players ancestors where in fact victims of nazi concentration camps. Can a sane-minded person threat to "Zyklon" them in game?

Look, I'm not above using stereotypes to taunt enemy in Eve. Yes, I do smack on local too. But your post crosses the line between "inteligent taunting" and borderline racial offensiveness that should simply be unacceptable to any reader - Pole or no Pole.

Also about your avatar on this forum - do you realise that displaying Nazi symbols (outside of historic reconstructions) is considered a crime in many countries?

haha shut up filthy polak no one cares

**SokoleOko** · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by R0ot

Oh wow so we've gotten to the point of comparing to real life wars. The circle or retard is complete. GG

As long as there are single-nation entities in Eve, you can't escape this kind of comparison. Nothing's wrong with that tbh.

Problem starts when you use hate language and racist offensives. Is this allowed on Kugu?

**Moriarti** · 2012-11-03

Well, that reminded me quickly why americans are considered so fucking dumb as a whole with some exceptions, not the other way around.

**Agathor** · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by SokoleOko

As long as there are single-nation entities in Eve, you can't escape this kind of comparison. Nothing's wrong with that tbh.

Problem starts when you use hate language and racist offensives. Is this allowed on Kugu?

Not really, you must make a distinction between a few harmless troll jabs and real racism.

**R0ot** · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by SokoleOko

As long as there are single-nation entities in Eve, you can't escape this kind of comparison. Nothing's wrong with that tbh.

Sure you can, you just stop making them.

**Alidean** · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by SokoleOko

GJ, you've made me register on Kugu after 4 years of playing Eve, just to reply to this most moronic and unacceptable post I can remember.

1) WW2 started in 1939, not 1938. Every kid in elementary school in Poland knows that yet apparently this basic knowledge eluded you.

2) Polish cavalry never charged tanks. During defence of Poland back in 1939 there were few "old-school" cavarly charges against German rear-echelons because it was fun. As per rule, Polish cavarly "moved on horses, fought on foot" and not with lances, but with modern machine guns and anti-tank rifles. Since cavalry brigades were considered the elite of Polish Army, those troops were never "malnourished".

3) Jews were important minority in Poland (8,6% of population in 1931). They've considered Poland as their homeland because Polish people never persecuted anyone based on religion. In fact, first leaders of Israel were born in Poland and spoke Polish fluently. They were by no means "pigdog" to us.

4) "Pollack" is as offensive as "Nigger".

5) I can safely bet that many c0ven players ancestors where in fact victims of nazi concentration camps. Can a sane-minded person threat to "Zyklon" them in game?

Look, I'm not above using stereotypes to taunt enemy in Eve. Yes, I do smack on local too. But your post crosses the line between "inteligent taunting" and borderline racial offensiveness that should simply be unacceptable to any reader - Pole or no Pole.

Also about your avatar on this forum - do you realise that displaying Nazi symbols (outside of historic reconstructions) is considered a crime in many countries?

This is a troll right? It has to be....

**SokoleOko** · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by Agathor

Not really, you must make a distinction between a few harmless troll jabs and real racism.

Surey, I have no idea who that penis-whazziname is and what is his reputation here, nevertheless, that particular post got reposted on other forums and here I am. Like I said - this crossed the line.

Such posting is unacceptable among inteligent people and deserves bitchslap.

**Checkbox Poll** · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by Alidean

This is a troll right? It has to be....

nope

**n0th** · 2012-11-03

You have to deal with outright racism and holocaust references being 100% fair game for trolling on this part of the forum, thats what the "uncensored" part entails.

I dont particularly like it either, but then again - i have fucking Fon Revedhort in my alliance who plays the Nazi troll card really hard

**Lorren Canada** · 2012-11-03

aaaaahaha that's amazing.

Out of curiosity which forum did penif's post get re-posted to Soko?

**Some Market Dude** · 2012-11-03

wolololol

welcome to kugu

fix the plumbing while you're here

**Agathor** · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by SokoleOko

Surey, I have no idea who that penis-whazziname is and what is his reputation here, nevertheless, that particular post got reposted on other forums and here I am. Like I said - this crossed the line.

Such posting is unacceptable among inteligent people and deserves bitchslap.

Originally Posted by Some Market Dude

wolololol

welcome to kugu

fix the plumbing while you're here

And that is from a fellow Pollack if I am not mistaken.

**SokoleOko** · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by n0th

You have to deal with outright racism and holocaust references being 100% fair game for trolling on this part of the forum, thats what the "uncensored" part entails.

Thanks for clearing that up

I get the idea, but still - freedom of speach doesn't mean freedom to say ANYTHING. Btw, this is something I do for a living (IRL)

Originally Posted by Lorren Canada

Out of curiosity which forum did penif's post get re-posted to Soko?

Polish official Eve forum, obviously.

Looks like got ignored mostly ("americans" :shrug

, but not quite. I'll bet it will be great boost to c0ven's recruitment

OK, I had my say, so please feel free to carry on mud-wrestling

**Themick** · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by SokoleOko

Problem starts when you use hate language and racist offensives. Is this allowed on Kugu?

If you had even lurked for a single day prior to posting, fuck, even an hour, this wouldn't be asked.

**Razzor** · 2012-11-03

Days without being trolled by penif - 0

**Themick** · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by SokoleOko

Thanks for clearing that up

I get the idea, but still - freedom of speach doesn't mean freedom to say ANYTHING. Btw, this is something I do for a living (IRL)

Polish official Eve forum, obviously.

Looks like got ignored mostly ("americans" :shrug

, but not quite. I'll bet it will be great boost to c0ven's recruitment

OK, I had my say, so please feel free to carry on mud-wrestling

ITT: Some dumb Pollack trying to be morally righteous on kugu.

Dude, if I can be honest with you here, about a good 90% of the supposed racism on here consists of pencil-necked or overweight white nerds calling one another nigger. Except some BL dudes I guess because I hear they lift.

The point is, you're a nigger or something, I got distracted being a dumb American. vOv

**Vanir Tsero** · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by SokoleOko

Thanks for clearing that up

I get the idea, but still - freedom of speach doesn't mean freedom to say ANYTHING. Btw, this is something I do for a living (IRL)

You're absolutely wrong. Pending on the medium you use, different interpretations of this "right" may be used. On most forums, you can say and do whatever you want. Specified mediums in which you actively contribute to will have a completely separate ruleset than the outside world. Attempting to force a documented right for a completely unrelated forum is like telling someone how to raise their child based on the documentation of a different family's experiences.

For example. I could say that the Jews needed higher thermal resists. Sure, it makes me look like an ass when I say stuff like that, but I am free to do so on these forums.
If I were to post that in an email at my job, there would be real life consequences.

Don't muddy the waters by trying to push morality onto people who simply don't care. You'll just get angry and upset.

Eat some chocolate and start throwing shit at people like the rest of us "intelligent" people do here on Kugutsumen.

**Agathor** · 2012-11-03

Well, its not all bad on Kugu. Take me for instance. The Polish people for some reason sent a lot of nuns to Iceland to take care of the old and sick.

http://www.karmel.is/eng/index.html

Making us almost genetically unable to say anything bad about you.

**Soft Insanity** · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by Themick

If you had even lurked for a single day prior to posting, fuck, even an hour, this wouldn't be asked.

The forum is named after a character in a Japanese hentai. I think that's all we need to know.

**SokoleOko** · 2012-11-03

Originally Posted by Vanir Tsero

You're absolutely wrong. Pending on the medium you use, different interpretations of this "right" may be used. On most forums, you can say and do whatever you want. Specified mediums in which you actively contribute to will have a completely separate ruleset than the outside world. Attempting to force a documented right for a completely unrelated forum is like telling someone how to raise their child based on the documentation of a different family's experiences.

Taking the risk of totally derailing this thread - nope, you're wrong.

True, there are different rulesets for different mediums. Nevertheless, how about posting some child pornography because "I'm free to say whatever I want". You'd probably say that this an absurd argument. So here's another one - in few European countries it is illegal to deny that holocaust was a fact (ie. in Poland and Austria). No matter what rules of this forum are, you maybe persecuted under certain conditions (like being citizen of those countries or the forum server being located in those countries).

Point is, no medium is above the law. I'm not saying that this particular post was breaking the law, but - like I said - crossed the line.