[Proposal] Turn Titans into mobile outposts

[General Cartman Lee]

I would like to propose turning titans into a mobile outpost - a cross between a POS and an outpost.

A "undeployed" Titan would:

- be able to move (like now)
- be able to use a jump drive
- be able to bridge players
- not be able to activate weapons

This would require the addition of a "deployment module" (similar to a Siege/Triage module) that deploys the titan as a mobile outpost. When deployed:

- strong and/or fuel is burned every hour
- station like services (cloning/repair/etc) are enabled
- high-slot weapons are enabled
- the EHP of the titan is increased significantly
- jump bridge is disabled
- bridging is disabled
- activating/deactivating the deployment module disables all of the above abilities, and takes a long time (1 hour+?)

In terms of fitting:
- high/mid/low slot are used as they currently are for weapons/tank/etc
- services are fitted as a sub-system

The destruction of titan requires it to be reinforced, disabling services, then destroyed after the reinforcement timer.

This will suppose aggressive warfare, allowing an entity to deploy to any region of 0.0, but with the risk of committing a Titan.

Obviously the is a rough idea in its early stages, so flame away. :3

[Manny]

blah double post

[Manny]

Five years ago when there were less than 50 titans in game this would have been a great idea. However CCP has stated since the inception they wanted titans to be huge offensive weapons. Now we have 1000 or more titans in game. Can you imagine anyway fathomable why we need 1000 mobile stations. After years of dedicated skill training and Isk outlay. A ship CCP has stated over and over through iteration/nerf that the ship clearly was meant to have offensive capability. It is a big slap in the face to the owners. Were not talking about a random subcap hull you can pick-up in Jita were talking about a very rare ship in the context of available hulls in Eve that players are trapped in. CCP is in a sticky situation and here but this isn't the answer.

[HeliconOne]

Five years ago when there were less than 50 titans in game this would have been a great idea. However CCP has stated since the inception they wanted titans to be huge offensive weapons. Now we have 1000 or more titans in game. Can you imagine anyway fathomable why we need 1000 mobile stations. After years of dedicated skill training and Isk outlay. A ship CCP has stated over and over through iteration/nerf that the ship clearly was meant to have offensive capability. It is a big slap in the face to the owners. Were not talking about a random subcap hull you can pick-up in Jita were talking about a very rare ship in the context of available hulls in Eve that players are trapped in. CCP is in a sticky situation and here but this isn't the answer.

So the solution is to dis-incentivise titans until there's only 50 of them active again

[Mizuchi]

then the rest resub?

[HeliconOne]

If the rest are really turned on by the idea of flying a 100bn unarmed outpost, sure.

[pinoyzzz]

Option 1: Keep titans are they currently are. When titans are destroyed, they do 25M AoE damage that is sig-based (so things like Drakes are mostly unharmed) in a 250km radius. One titan exploding can cause other damaged or incorrectly fit titans to explode, which then can cause a chain reaction that causes whole supercap fleets to explode. Supercap proliferation solved.

Option 2: Remove jump freighters from the game. Remove all combat or fleet bonuses from Titans, and allow titans to dock.

[StevieTopSiders]

Option 1: Keep titans are they currently are. When titans are destroyed, they do 25M AoE damage that is sig-based (so things like Drakes are mostly unharmed) in a 250km radius. One titan exploding can cause other damaged or incorrectly fit titans to explode, which then can cause a chain reactor that causes whole supercap fleets to explode. Supercap proliferation solved. Option 2: Remove jump freighters from the game. Remove all combat or fleet bonuses from Titans, and titans to dock.

Before we go and remove JF's, I think mineral compression should be nerfed, first.

[tgr]

Make industry not suck complete cock in 0.0 first.

[jimmychrist]

Option 2: Remove jump freighters from the game.

Freighter convoys being such a fucking laugh riot, it's a wonder people don't just conga around a region with empty cargoholds for the unbridled joy.

[somedude76]

I like the idea of a deathstar or mobile base. But not turning titans into that, let the titans be titans and a mobile starbase/station be something on it's own.

[HeliconOne]

I like the idea of a deathstar or mobile base. But not turning titans into that, let the titans be titans and a mobile starbase/station be something on it's own.

That's kind of silly. We have a ship class (Titans) in need of a defined role, and a defined role (mobile base of operations) in need of a ship class. A natural fit, surely?

[Skelli]

As Manny pointed out, Titans do have a role.

But I like the OP's idea. In fact it's not the first time I read this. Maybe CCP could turn all player outposts into such mobile stations. Voilá: destroyable outposts.

[bobbechk]

make dreads useful in combat against subcaps/ introduce t2 anti subcap dreads

Keep tracking nerf on titans but remove the retarded scan res nerf, who would use titans against subcaps if dreads could do it better


Another thing i'd like to see it to increase the distance between gun sigs and ship sigs so that a 0m/s transversal hit from a capital turret would not kill a frigate or cruiser, the system does work like this today but it does not take into consideration the fact that smaller ships have allot less ehp

What i'd like to see with this change is that that cap could not damage crusiers, and that crusiers would actually be close to invulnerable to them and hence become a counter, what this all would mean is that you can always counter any fleet with either the best option, 1 size above or the lower dps option of 2 sizes below

Taking on capitals with cruisers, or battleships with frigates would be viable but ofc easily countered by introducing your own "smaller" size fleet to counter theirs

In my mind this would mean that there would be alot of different ships fighting on a grid at the same time whenever there's a big fight

[MpozoY]

What is the "one size above" option against titans?

[tgr]

It's obvious, CCP has to introduce hypercaps in a year's time.

[bobbechk]

nerf blue-whales they eat krill, the support of the ocean

[Zagdul]

If when the titan is deployed, the pilot can get out and there's some kind of security measure to getting back into it, I'm all for it.

[someDude]

Five years ago when there were less than 50 titans in game this would have been a great idea. However CCP has stated since the inception they wanted titans to be huge offensive weapons. Now we have 1000 or more titans in game. Can you imagine anyway fathomable why we need 1000 mobile stations. After years of dedicated skill training and Isk outlay. A ship CCP has stated over and over through iteration/nerf that the ship clearly was meant to have offensive capability. It is a big slap in the face to the owners. Were not talking about a random subcap hull you can pick-up in Jita were talking about a very rare ship in the context of available hulls in Eve that players are trapped in. CCP is in a sticky situation and here but this isn't the answer.

Just fyi there are 750 active titans ingame and an additional 100 on inactive accounts.

Titans will keep offensive capabilities against CAPITAL ships and structure and how is this slapping titanpilots in the face? You can still kill the 4 most expensive ship classes in your pwnmobile. I'm sorry that CCP acted after you gave them no other choice. You see, if you had not flown around and blapped subcaps left and right, noone would have changed anything, so THANK YOU MANNY/PL for the titan nerf

[Grim]

I would like CCP to change titans so that they require fuel to run (like a tower) and need to be moored in a POS for ~1 week per month.

Basically I just watched the movie Tora Tora Tora, and want someone to do a sneaky asian pearl harbor attack on a fleet of titans anchored in a tower.

[Matos]

I would like CCP to change titans so that they require fuel to run (like a tower) and need to be moored in a POS for ~1 week per month.

Basically I just watched the movie Tora Tora Tora, and want someone to do a sneaky asian pearl harbor attack on a fleet of titans anchored in a tower.

I would be one more step to dissuade regular Players from getting into a Titan

[Raketefrau]

That's no moon.

[Don Peyote]

I would like CCP to change titans so that they require fuel to run (like a tower) and need to be moored in a POS for ~1 week per month.

Basically I just watched the movie Tora Tora Tora, and want someone to do a sneaky asian pearl harbor attack on a fleet of titans anchored in a tower.

This would be so fucking cool. Since there are so many titans about, alliances could probably just rotate Titans and be fine anyway, but I don't care about any of the practical limitations, it needs to happen.

[JimFromIT]

I still think it would be better to just have a small-sig battlecruiser or cruiser that can fit citidel torp launchers much like how bombers can fit torps. They would be pretty shiity vs conventional battlecruiser or battleship fleets (which would slaughter them) and good vs caps and supercaps. Conventional caps would have a much better chance of hitting them while supers would get raped by them. Leave the tracking nerf as it is (maybe tweak it a little further) but dump the scan res nerf and end up with this:

subcaps>anti-cap BC's>supercaps>capitals>subcaps

That's slightly simplified but it gives everything both a role it is efective against and something that it is vulnerable to.

[bobbechk]

I still think it would be better to just have a small-sig battlecruiser or cruiser that can fit citidel torp launchers much like how bombers can fit torps. They would be pretty shiity vs conventional battlecruiser or battleship fleets (which would slaughter them) and good vs caps and supercaps. Conventional caps would have a much better chance of hitting them while supers would get raped by them. Leave the tracking nerf as it is (maybe tweak it a little further) but dump the scan res nerf and end up with this:

subcaps>anti-cap BC's>supercaps>capitals>subcaps

That's slightly simplified but it gives everything both a role it is efective against and something that it is vulnerable to.

While i like the idea of a "Anti capital subcap" it would be the final nail in the coffin for the current version of dreads since they would be able to do anything a dread can with allot less effort and risk.

If dreads would get a new role as anti subcap or soemthing and eve moved away from the whole "grind 100 structures" then i see this as a great addition, as of right now it would only make regular caps completely useless.


CCP usually favours this kind of approach (adding a new ship instead of fixing the one intended for the role) so i wouldn't be too supprised if this actually happens...

[JimFromIT]

While i like the idea of a "Anti capital subcap" it would be the final nail in the coffin for the current version of dreads since they would be able to do anything a dread can with allot less effort and risk.

If dreads would get a new role as anti subcap or soemthing and eve moved away from the whole "grind 100 structures" then i see this as a great addition, as of right now it would only make regular caps completely useless.


CCP usually favours this kind of approach (adding a new ship instead of fixing the one intended for the role) so i wouldn't be too supprised if this actually happens...

I was going with the idea that dreads and carriers should be better able to hit subcaps and supers less able - they would fill a middle ground of being useful for structure shooting awhile being able to defend themselves (to an extent) against subcaps. Carriers are allready pretty reasonable - maybe dreads could be fiddled with to give them a slight improvement on tracking - or an alternative module to the seige mod that makes them better at blapping subcaps.

It would mean that it actually became worthwhile fielding conventional caps as they could act as heavy guns for your subcap fleet or be used to fend off subcaps from your supercap fleet. Let supers be perfect for annihilating structures and other capitals, let subcaps have game against capitals and be able to kill poorly defended supers and let capitals augment both subcaps and supercaps in a meaningful way.

[12m18]

i want a titan platform where you can stick 9 or n titans on it and kill planets or stations with it, like SWars

[John Caffeine]

I was going with the idea that dreads and carriers should be better able to hit subcaps and supers less able - they would fill a middle ground of being useful for structure shooting awhile being able to defend themselves (to an extent) against subcaps. Carriers are allready pretty reasonable - maybe dreads could be fiddled with to give them a slight improvement on tracking - or an alternative module to the seige mod that makes them better at blapping subcaps.

50% better tracking instead of 50% tracking penalty while in siege. They would completly murder subcaps, while being very vulnerable to supercapitals.

[bobbechk]

50% better tracking instead of 50% tracking penalty while in siege. They would completly murder subcaps, while being very vulnerable to supercapitals.

Stealth 0.0 and lowsec ratting boost!

[JimFromIT]

50% bonus is probably a bit too much - it would have to be tweaked, but that would be the general idea (and reduced damage bonus) Even if they were used for ratting - if the siege timer was 10 mins it would make it a risk to use it. Especially now the dread would have no way of clearing off any scrambling frig-sized rats - sub BS (e.g Vagabond) roaming gangs would have a field day killing these in anoms.

[John Caffeine]

50% bonus is probably a bit too much - it would have to be tweaked, but that would be the general idea (and reduced damage bonus) Even if they were used for ratting - if the siege timer was 10 mins it would make it a risk to use it. Especially now the dread would have no way of clearing off any scrambling frig-sized rats - sub BS (e.g Vagabond) roaming gangs would have a field day killing these in anoms.

Make two siege mods, one giving a tracking bonus but range penalty, one giving a range bonus but tracking penatly. Remove the local rep bonus while in siege, reduce the scan res penalty but keep the 3 max locked targets with T2 siege. To murder a shortrange BS gang you'd drop short range tracking dreads, leaving you open to be counterdropped at range by sniper battleships, sniper dreads or supercapitals. Drop long range dreads and you risk not being able to track subcaps at all, or being dropped up close by much higher DPS shortrange dreads. The combination of the two different siege modules would and long/short range guns on dreads would certainly be interesting.

Ofcourse this would just fuck over the Phoenix, but I'm ok with that.

[JimFromIT]

New Seige Mod

Max Velocity Bonus -100 %

Activation time / duration 600 s

Damage Multiplier Bonus 200 %

Tech Level 1

Scan Resolution Bonus -0 %

Consumption Type Strontium Clathrates

Consumption Quantity 500

Tracking Speed Bonus 35 %

Explosion Velocity Bonus 50 % Explosion Radius Bonus -65 %

Armor Repair Bonus 0 %

Phoenix is buffed by having an smaller explosion radius and velocity buff

[John Caffeine]

New Seige Mod

Max Velocity Bonus -100 %

Activation time / duration 600 s

Damage Multiplier Bonus 200 %

Tech Level 1

Scan Resolution Bonus -0 %

Consumption Type Strontium Clathrates

Consumption Quantity 500

Tracking Speed Bonus 35 %

Explosion Velocity Bonus 50 % Explosion Radius Bonus -65 %

Armor Repair Bonus 0 %

Phoenix is buffed by having an smaller explosion radius and velocity buff

A 200% increase to damage would be rather underwhelming. A faction fit gank Revelation would be doing an unimpressive 3000 dps. Simply put, it would be a lot less effective than it is against subcaps right now, and that right there would be one hell of a dread nerf.

[JimFromIT]

A 200% increase to damage would be rather underwhelming. A faction fit gank Revelation would be doing an unimpressive 3000 dps. Simply put, it would be a lot less effective than it is against subcaps right now, and that right there would be one hell of a dread nerf.

Yeah - you;re probably right - I'm just aware that if they stay at the 625% bonus they are right now it would be a bit too much, you want to make the choice between the cap and subcap (seige and skirmish if youlike) modules to be important. If they do the same DPS and have great tracking you would just use that mod all the time. It should be a choice between a tracking mod for vs subcaps and a seige mod vs supercaps, caps and structures.

[John Caffeine]

Yeah - you;re probably right - I'm just aware that if they stay at the 625% bonus they are right now it would be a bit too much, you want to make the choice between the cap and subcap (seige and skirmish if youlike) modules to be important. If they do the same DPS and have great tracking you would just use that mod all the time. It should be a choice between a tracking mod for vs subcaps and a seige mod vs supercaps, caps and structures.

T2 siege is 840%. Reducing the bonus a bit might be in order, but if tracking bonus is coupled with a decent range penalty, I don't think the dps would be that unbalanced. You murder stuff up close, but wouldn't be able to reach them if they pulled range on you.

[JimFromIT]

T2 siege is 840%. Reducing the bonus a bit might be in order, but if tracking bonus is coupled with a decent range penalty, I don't think the dps would be that unbalanced. You murder stuff up close, but wouldn't be able to reach them if they pulled range on you.

They would be really good at defending a WH entrance - just park it next to the WH and remote sensor-stregth boost it to hell

[Malcanis]

It is a big slap in the face to the owners.

Think of it as being remote-doomsdayed by hypercaps.

[Elektrea]

Option 2: Remove jump freighters from the game. Remove all combat or fleet bonuses from Titans, and allow titans to dock.

Option 2: Remove jump freighters from the game. Remove all combat or fleet bonuses from Titans, and allow titans to dock.

Option 2: Remove jump freighters from the game. Remove all combat or fleet bonuses from Titans, and allow titans to dock.

Option 2: Remove jump freighters from the game. Remove all combat or fleet bonuses from Titans, and allow titans to dock.

Option 2: Remove jump freighters from the game. Remove all combat or fleet bonuses from Titans, and allow titans to dock.

Anyone not agreeing doesn't realize how fucking much JF's ruined 0.0. Delete JF's and revamp industry and mining so tech2 and other mods are made in 0.0.

Right now all you do is export to empire, this is fucking retarded. Put a large emphasis on 0.0 production likes it supposed to be.

[poaw]

Anyone not agreeing doesn't realize how fucking much JF's ruined 0.0. Delete JF's and revamp industry and mining so tech2 and other mods are made in 0.0.

Right now all you do is export to empire, this is fucking retarded. Put a large emphasis on 0.0 production likes it supposed to be.

It would help support your argument if you explained how much JF's ruined 0.0 instead of just mentioning that people don't realize it.

I remember freighter ops. Just like the always hated escort-mission of single-player gaming, but with the added dimension of being in real-time instead of just fast-forwarding to the good part. That last line is a lie, there was no good part.

[Mfume]

Man, I love 0.0 being a desolate wasteland.

[General Cartman Lee]

It would help support your argument if you explained how much JF's ruined 0.0 instead of just mentioning that people don't realize it.

I remember freighter ops. Just like the always hated escort-mission of single-player gaming, but with the added dimension of being in real-time instead of just fast-forwarding to the good part. That last line is a lie, there was no good part.

1) Freighter convoys mean people will try to gank the convoy. Necessitating a defence gang. Hey look, a small-medium gang tactical objective in 0.0

2) JFs make 0.0 smaller, a lot smaller. The whole universe can be transversed in a handful of cynos.

3) Risk free logistics - if you use POS/station systems, you'll only lose a JF if you fuck up or fail at scouting.

[Mfume]

Yeah, I would just as soon base out of lowsec than do any of that freighter convoy shit.

[Matos]

Freighter convoys are fun as long as you are not the one doing them ...

[Elektrea]

Man, I love 0.0 being a desolate wasteland.

It wasn't before, and it wouldn't be after the change. If you make 0.0 production worthy (t2, BS hulls, t3) people will populate for the isk. Right now you have incursions, lvl4 missions, risk free production and virtually risk free pos placement, allllll in highsec. There is almost no reason to do any of this out of empire, apart from lowsec cap building, botting and titaning sanctums. By revamping production, mining, hauling, missioning and incursions you will have people willing to stay in 0.0 to mine and produce for their alliance/corp.

But to get rid of the JF you have to revamp hauling. Right now there needs to be a class of hauler that sits in between the classic hauler we have always had, and the orca. This way you balance the risk and reward of using a regular freighter. If you want to move everything, haul capital components, import minerals, you have to put in the effort for it (there is 0 right now). For the pvpers this new class will be big and nimble enough to do their shit. The miners have the rorqual and orca. The pvpers have this new type, orca and carrier.

0.0 compared to highsec is completely broken. But hey lets keep one of the most game breaking ships because we got too fucking lazy.

It would help support your argument if you explained how much JF's ruined 0.0 instead of just mentioning that people don't realize it.

No offense but if you don't realize how fucked up JFs made 0.0 your turning an ignorant eye. There are ways to rectify it but I know its easy to say fuck it lets leave it the way it is.

[poaw]

1) Freighter convoys mean people will try to gank the convoy. Necessitating a defence gang. Hey look, a small-medium gang tactical objective in 0.0

2) JFs make 0.0 smaller, a lot smaller. The whole universe can be transversed in a handful of cynos.

3) Risk free logistics - if you use POS/station systems, you'll only lose a JF if you fuck up or fail at scouting.

1) Those gangs aren't fun at all. I'd seriously consider those a step below taking POCOs in the hierarchy of enjoyable pvp activities.
2) That isn't unique to JFs at all.
3) Most deaths in EVE outside of fleets only happen because you fuck up in some way.

No offense but if you don't realize how fucked up JFs made 0.0 your turning an ignorant eye. There are ways to rectify it but I know its easy to say fuck it lets leave it the way it is.

I don't realize how fucked up it was because it was like 4 years ago for me. I'm asking you to explain What went wrong?, so that I can understand where you're coming from. I am almost completely insulated from the wasteland 0.0 phenomena because I've only been in "scrub" alliances full of people that actually play EVE.

[Grim]

I know we have had the JF argument before, but I think the rationale is that "back in the day" nullsec had a lot fewer people, so it wasnt as terrible. But now, with several thousand living in a single region there is not enough "spacelift" to keep them supplied with the most basic stuff.

Any JF nerf would need a massive boost to nullsec industry, ie many times more factory slots and profitable mining. Otherwise prices for even T1 ships and mods will skyrocket and everyone will run back to lowsec.

[Grath]

I don't realize how fucked up it was because it was like 4 years ago for me. I'm asking you to explain What went wrong?, so that I can understand where you're coming from. I am almost completely insulated from the wasteland 0.0 phenomena because I've only been in "scrub" alliances full of people that actually play EVE.

There were more reasons to fight over different spaces than just moons, location mattered.

There was generally more life in pipes as haulers and people moved around, and moved things around.

Freighter ops were another kind of op, it might not have been the best kind, but POS shoots, IHUB shoots, Station Shoots, and POCOS are literally no better, and at least freighter ops put assets at risk.

Low sec suffered a blow from JF's as well. Pools of space that normally had pirates and camps dried up and withered away as the JF's just skip over most of lowsec now.

0.0 Mining took yet another kick in the nuts as people simply use JF's to move compressed minerals from empire to 0.0 in the form of guns and such.




Now, some of those things may seem stupid and a needless waste of time to you, but to others, who 'play the game', seeing Lowsec areas that used to be filled with activity from the traffic, seeing huge tracts of 0.0 that used to be busy pipes, and watching every single chance at a fight get raped to shit until there are now literally nearly only fleet fights left to be had, is just as stupid, and just as big of a waste of time.

[General Cartman Lee]

1) Those gangs aren't fun at all. I'd seriously consider those a step below taking POCOs in the hierarchy of enjoyable pvp activities.
2) That isn't unique to JFs at all.
3) Most deaths in EVE outside of fleets only happen because you fuck up in some way.



I don't realize how fucked up it was because it was like 4 years ago for me. I'm asking you to explain What went wrong?, so that I can understand where you're coming from. I am almost completely insulated from the wasteland 0.0 phenomena because I've only been in "scrub" alliances full of people that actually play EVE.

1) What aspect isn't fun? The "convoys take a long time aspect"? Or "I don't enjoy escorting a convoy?" I don't see how this is different to a structure grind, except its more interactive and you might get a fight out of it.

2) So because other things (JBs and Titans come to mind) make EVE smaller, one more ship that does the same while hauling huge amounts of goods is ok?

3) Again, you have no point. "Most deaths happen in EVE because you fuck up". This is no different, sure. And proves ... ?

[JimFromIT]

Has this thread really become "Don't nerf titans - jump-freighters are the real enemy..."?

[poaw]

1) What aspect isn't fun? The "convoys take a long time aspect"? Or "I don't enjoy escorting a convoy?" I don't see how this is different to a structure grind, except its more interactive and you might get a fight out of it.

2) So because other things (JBs and Titans come to mind) make EVE smaller, one more ship that does the same while hauling huge amounts of goods is ok?

3) Again, you have no point. "Most deaths happen in EVE because you fuck up". This is no different, sure. And proves ... ?

1) The unfun part isn't that it's long or I don't enjoy it. It's because if I'm defending I have to put several times the effort into protecting it because I'm escorting a ship that has 240k EHP (with maxed out Tengu and Legion links) most of which comes from it's 150k 0% resist hull. "Protecting" them involves me doing everything in my power to avoid a fight to begin with because with current game mechanics only lopsided odds in favor of the defender have even a hope extracting the freighter from a fight. The difference between this and a structure grind is several million HP, a fuelbay with stront in it and and all the unique ways you can make attacking them an unpleasant proposition. The most important part being that if we do fight over a POS, the attacking side can't just call it primary and instapop it upon landing on grid, making any ensuing combat irrelevant and likely infuriating the would-be defenders (you know, like an escort mission).

2) No, because other things, which existed before and continue to exist in greater numbers and produce a more noticable effect than JFs, continue to exist it makes it less important (like a drippy faucet during a flood). If you had said remove the ALL jump drives, jump bridges, titan bridges, cyno beacons and cyno gens from EVE to make it smaller than I would probably agree that it would make the game "big" again.

3) That was your point. That JFs only die when they fuck up (or an exploit heh), when most deaths in the game can be chalked up to someone fucking up. You didn't scout, weren't paying attention, took a fight you shouldn't have, got greedy trying to pop just a couple more tackle before warping, forgot to broadcast, fucked up your kite, fucked up your sling shot, burned up your MWD, etc etc etc. JFs are not unique in that regard. Hell some people even point out that the best (only) chances to kill ships are during the inevitable fuck ups (trying to kill supers that bounce). It's not much of a slam against JFs when the EVE's system of risk is largely based around that if you do everything you can to protect yourself you'll be safe for the most part.