Tales of RMT; The ISK Vanishing Act

**Propagandas** · 2012-04-01

Originally Posted by Weaselior

courthouse is a gsf diplo

Ah, well we always weigh in the fun factor of contracts before we decide.

And as have been mentioned before, while we would very much enjoy working with Vee, Test + our old allies TNT (YEA THATS RIGHT I FUCKING REMEMBER CURSE 09 PL/TNT FOR LYFE), the drawback of being forced to work with RZR, FA and the rest of the retard squad is simply too much for us.

**Opti** · 2012-04-01

Originally Posted by Weaselior

courthouse is a gsf diplo

his name isnt Vile motherfucking rat so i back up my swedish brother, WHO DOES YOU BEES???

**MpozoY** · 2012-04-01

Courthouse is DBRB's real-life father

**Sandwich** · 2012-04-01

Originally Posted by Agathor

Awox botters that RMT and loot the can. Presto, you are involved in a heap of shit.

Lets hope CCP will see who is who.

CCP held up Mittani as their golden boy, you expect them to be able to tell who's bad and who's good?

**Fartman** · 2012-04-01

one of you rich fucks send some non-rmt space moneys to my main man Thanksgiving Burkey tia

**fugazii** · 2012-04-01

I too believe 15tril is missing on April 1st.

**c0oldude** · 2012-04-01

Originally Posted by Grogoth

It is worse than being -76b or in our case -15t. That is the current wallet balance NOW, meaning they probably removed 80b, or in our case closer to 17t

maybe that will shove that smug attitude you seem to constantly have right up your ass

However |I dont think CCP just randomly neg peoples wallet without doing some research first...

**tgr** · 2012-04-01

Originally Posted by c0oldude

However |I dont think CCP just randomly neg peoples wallet without doing some research first...

There's been more than one false positive, just sayin'.

**Fix Lag** · 2012-04-01

Originally Posted by tgr

There's been more than one false positive, just sayin'.

That's what they said after my STD tests! Funny how that works...

**Lucas Quaan** · 2012-04-01

Originally Posted by Rotor

No it's not the same thing. You're selling something on an open market, where everyone can come and buy your stuff, you don't know who's going to buy it. That's totally different from accepting a 200b contract when you know that the only thing that the alliance does is RMT. You know very well that you're being paid in dirty ISK. But that's still not ok since it shouldn't be the player's fault, CCP has to stop this, now every player needs to be paranoid and petition every transfer because CCP are completely shit at controlling RMT.

Yes, it's exactly the same thing. I, as a seller of goods and/or services should not have to worry about where the ISK is coming from and even so, we routinely petition large transfers to keep this very thing from happening. Besides, drone regions have long been the number one seller of supers on the open market, many of which we bought ourselves, so their ISK was not dirty in the first place. Sure, some part of it we now have confirmed got RMTed, but they were SELLING it, not buying.

**Urziel99** · 2012-04-01

Originally Posted by Lucas Quaan

Yes, it's exactly the same thing. I, as a seller of goods and/or services should not have to worry about where the ISK is coming from and even so, we routinely petition large transfers to keep this very thing from happening. Besides, drone regions have long been the number one seller of supers on the open market, many of which we bought ourselves, so their ISK was not dirty in the first place. Sure, some part of it we now have confirmed got RMTed, but they were SELLING it, not buying.

A good point, but they may not be able to discern between an RMT isk transfer and a merc contract payment, since there is as yet no formal system for such transactions.

**Fear** · 2012-04-01

Use a chibba to move the isk. make up some stupid line about super caps. wormholes. making a corp for you doesn't matter.

**Kevin** · 2012-04-01

So what about the other big supposed botters? While PL probably don't bot, they may have accepted dirty isk through their contracts, be it accidentally or not. Goons had several guys whacked.

What about Vince and the NC. thing? Horus? RMT payments? Its been very quiet over that way, who if anyone got hit there?

**Grogoth** · 2012-04-02

Just FYI, most of COVEN bot in PL.

**Deniera** · 2012-04-02

I think it sucks for anyone hit by this. Paint it as justice or however you want, but for CCP to out of the blue ban a load of people is shitty. I didn't RMT or bot (mainly due to sheer laziness) but I feel bad for the guys who did get kicked in the balls by CCP.

As far as I can tell nobody in my corp was put into negative balance, unfortunately other TEST corps didn't fair as well.

**Malcore** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by Deniera

I think it sucks for anyone hit by this. Paint it as justice or however you want, but for CCP to out of the blue ban a load of people is shitty. I didn't RMT or bot (mainly due to sheer laziness) but I feel bad for the guys who did get kicked in the balls by CCP.

As far as I can tell nobody in my corp was put into negative balance, unfortunately other TEST corps didn't fair as well.

You're right, they should have totally given them a warning so as to give them an opportunity to launder the isk.

**Grogoth** · 2012-04-02

I still think the whole concept of banning paid accounts has to violate some law, somewhere. Like if you paid for a year, and they ban you 6 months in, they are refusing to provide a service which you have lawfully paid for. I wonder if your account resubscribes itself automatically when you are banned (surely not) and if it did, what legal recourse would there be?

The fact that they don't have to refund the pro rata portion of services paid for but withheld means that they could, at any point, just shut down the servers and walk away with the pure profit of future paid subscription months with absolutely no penalty to them whatsoever.

**WNxWolfy** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by Grogoth

I still think the whole concept of banning paid accounts has to violate some law, somewhere. Like if you paid for a year, and they ban you 6 months in, they are refusing to provide a service which you have lawfully paid for. I wonder if your account resubscribes itself automatically when you are banned (surely not) and if it did, what legal recourse would there be?

The fact that they don't have to refund the pro rata portion of services paid for but withheld means that they could, at any point, just shut down the servers and walk away with the pure profit of future paid subscription months with absolutely no penalty to them whatsoever.

I'm pretty sure that CCP has all rights to ban them as they violated the EULA.

**syndic thrass** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by Grogoth

I still think the whole concept of banning paid accounts has to violate some law, somewhere. Like if you paid for a year, and they ban you 6 months in, they are refusing to provide a service which you have lawfully paid for. I wonder if your account resubscribes itself automatically when you are banned (surely not) and if it did, what legal recourse would there be?

The fact that they don't have to refund the pro rata portion of services paid for but withheld means that they could, at any point, just shut down the servers and walk away with the pure profit of future paid subscription months with absolutely no penalty to them whatsoever.

You know this defense isn't going to get your botting Tengu unbanned, right?

**Deniera** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by Malcore

You're right, they should have totally given them a warning so as to give them an opportunity to launder the isk.

I'm not saying they did it for no reason, just that its shitty.

**Wonderfish** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by Grogoth

I still think the whole concept of banning paid accounts has to violate some law, somewhere. Like if you paid for a year, and they ban you 6 months in, they are refusing to provide a service which you have lawfully paid for. I wonder if your account resubscribes itself automatically when you are banned (surely not) and if it did, what legal recourse would there be?

The fact that they don't have to refund the pro rata portion of services paid for but withheld means that they could, at any point, just shut down the servers and walk away with the pure profit of future paid subscription months with absolutely no penalty to them whatsoever.

It is, in fact, all in the EULA/TOS for eve and pretty much any other online game that they can ban indefinitely any one who violates the terms of the EULA, or in the case of the Terms of Service, they will reserve the right to stop providing the game service without notice or repayment.

**White Tree** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by Grogoth

I still think the whole concept of banning paid accounts has to violate some law, somewhere. Like if you paid for a year, and they ban you 6 months in, they are refusing to provide a service which you have lawfully paid for. I wonder if your account resubscribes itself automatically when you are banned (surely not) and if it did, what legal recourse would there be?

The fact that they don't have to refund the pro rata portion of services paid for but withheld means that they could, at any point, just shut down the servers and walk away with the pure profit of future paid subscription months with absolutely no penalty to them whatsoever.

EULA/TOS etc. However, if I remember correctly EULA's aren't binding legal contracts. They're mostly just an agreement. Don't be a dumb faggot and we won't treat you like a dumb faggot, ok? Ok! I think in a genuine courtroom situation it would help the plaintiff but certainly it would not, on its own merits, constitute a solid case for prosecution.

**Don Peyote** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by White Tree

EULA/TOS etc. However, if I remember correctly EULA's aren't binding legal contracts. They're mostly just an agreement. Don't be a dumb faggot and we won't treat you like a dumb faggot, ok? Ok! I think in a genuine courtroom situation it would help the plaintiff but certainly it would not, on its own merits, constitute a solid case for prosecution.

No-one reads the fucking things, but I think they do have a clause about how by agreeing to the EULA, you acknowledge that by breaking the Terms of Service you can be penalised however they see fit

**Grogoth** · 2012-04-02

Yeah, I know it says it in the EULA and TOS, but even if that were a legally binding contract, you cannot be bound to an illegal contract.

If you sign a legally binding contract saying you will do something or else I can kill you, that wouldn't make my murdering you legal.

Also, I don't have a botting tengu, if I did I'd be in coven (I have some amazing logs from Oly26 begging me not to report his botting)

**Jones Bones** · 2012-04-02

Good luck getting a lawyer willing to take your $200 case against some Icelandic company's EULA.

**Don Peyote** · 2012-04-02

Mittens'll do it

**Fartman** · 2012-04-02

trial of the century

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH

**Grogoth** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by Jones Bones

Good luck getting a lawyer willing to take your $200 case against some Icelandic company's EULA.

Well, that is where refusing to pay it on the credit card due to seller fraud would be interesting.

**Jean Leaner** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by Grogoth

Yeah, I know it says it in the EULA and TOS, but even if that were a legally binding contract, you cannot be bound to an illegal contract.

If you sign a legally binding contract saying you will do something or else I can kill you, that wouldn't make my murdering you legal.

Also, I don't have a botting tengu, if I did I'd be in coven (I have some amazing logs from Oly26 begging me not to report his botting)

Most EULA's and TOS's violate at least the EU's consumer protection laws. So while you can win the case in the EU, the settlement typically doesn't involve getting unbanned and almost always would include a 'you can never play Eve Online again' clause. It would also be a tough case to win, and not worth the cost you would incur to actually bring the case to court.

(At least as far as I understand this is the case, my internet-lawyer friends may just be dumbfucks though)

**fugazii** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by Grogoth

Yeah, I know it says it in the EULA and TOS, but even if that were a legally binding contract, you cannot be bound to an illegal contract.

If you sign a legally binding contract saying you will do something or else I can kill you, that wouldn't make my murdering you legal.

Also, I don't have a botting tengu, if I did I'd be in coven (I have some amazing logs from Oly26 begging me not to report his botting)

You should look up the Blizzard vs MDY Industries lawsuit.

http://games.slashdot.org/story/08/1...from-mmoglider

Rip merc

**Grogoth** · 2012-04-02

I was never expecting that you should be unbanned because you paid for it, they TOTALLY have the right to JEFFRAIDER your access any time they like, but then they should be legally obligated to refund you for the time you can't play (even if it is at the cost of "never come back")

v0v

**Shoogafoots Jones** · 2012-04-02

If I didn't have to show up to trial and could get some Juden lawyer to do it Pro-Bono, I'd sue CCP on behalf of Norlana. Dude accepts a PLEX in Jita from some nigger, and honestly, who wouldn't, BAM!... dude's banned, and has been now for weeks with no response to any of his petitions or emails.

Now obviously the dude could be doin' dirt... but still, a fucking response or a time frame or fucking something from CCP seems in order.

**Malcore** · 2012-04-02

I remember when goons used to make fun to people for threatening to sue over EVE Online - An Internet Spaceship Game.

**Grogoth** · 2012-04-02

That was back when it wasn't happening to them Malcore, different times friend.

**MpozoY** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by Malcore

I remember when goons used to make fun to people for threatening to sue over EVE Online - An Internet Spaceship Game.

None of the people even remotely seriously talking about this in this thread are goons

Meanwhile I'll mock the hell out of groggy for even bringing it up, seriously that's retarded

**Grogoth** · 2012-04-02

Hey, woah ok. Calling an Abo "Groggy" is a racial stereotype and quite frankly you can eat a shit pile of nigger dicks you jew sucking faggot cock monkey dick shitter cunt faggot.

**powers** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by Grogoth

quite frankly you can eat a shit pile of nigger dicks you jew sucking faggot cock monkey dick shitter cunt faggot.

I think this sums up the thread nicely.

**Grogoth** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by Helios Black

Me too, lol.

Hey sorry, didn't mean to confuse you bro - let me remind you of a recent conversation where you wrote this;

No, elo put mfume in charge as CE? which was fine until mfume decided he hates me for some reason and made up some bullshit reason to take my director roles away. Elo was like wow‚ that's not r?ght, but it'? a dictator?hip not much I can do gotta a?k mfume for role? back. I was like are you serious? I've known you for how long and just gonna dick me like that? So‚ I dec?ded I'm tired of dealing with that ?hit and am gonna peace out once I get my aeon out. Mfume hate? me and he'? in total control now ?o no point in sticking around really.

E: Changed my mind, THIS DESERVES ITS OWN POST

**Ron Mexxico** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by Grogoth

Hey sorry, didn't mean to confuse you bro - let me remind you of a recent conversation where you wrote this;

would rep you again but i laughed and rep'd something else you posted

**courthouse** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by Propagandas

Ah, well we always weigh in the fun factor of contracts before we decide.

And as have been mentioned before, while we would very much enjoy working with Vee, Test + our old allies TNT (YEA THATS RIGHT I FUCKING REMEMBER CURSE 09 PL/TNT FOR LYFE), the drawback of being forced to work with RZR, FA and the rest of the retard squad is simply too much for us.

Yeah, I was really just talking about the *takes contract* *contractor dies* snark.

**Wusti** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by Grogoth

Hey, woah ok. Calling an Abo "Groggy" is a racial stereotype and quite frankly you can eat a shit pile of nigger dicks you jew sucking faggot cock monkey dick shitter cunt faggot.

marked down for repetition - please do better next time "Groggy".

**Grogoth** · 2012-04-02

Abuse isnt like mathematical functions, two faggots does not a heterosexual make.

**Grogoth** · 2012-04-02

Oh hey, a quick update and a brief trawl of my IRC logs

STRATEGIC #minusten LEAK

shows this;

[07:13] <NestorX85> Jogyn helios black pm'd me today asking if i can vouch him in again

[07:14] <BlueMajere> NestorX85:
[07:14] <BlueMajere> me too
[07:14] <BlueMajere> welcome 2 da club

Poor lil feller, WELCOME TO NESW o7o7o7o7o7o7o7

**DavidKMagnus** · 2012-04-02

Helios, you should set your sights a little higher and app to HABIT.

**Malcore** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by MpozoY

None of the people even remotely seriously talking about this in this thread are goons

Meanwhile I'll mock the hell out of groggy for even bringing it up, seriously that's retarded

You spend enough time on kugu and all the threads start to merge together.

**Ganondorf** · 2012-04-02

If you get permabanned and had paid in advance in cash (not plex) you have grounds for a credit card chargeback, since CCP is free to ban you for whatever reason, but they're not entitled to keep money after interrupting the service you paid for. This is standard procedure for all services so i think you would have a good chance in succeeding there.

**Pielemieni** · 2012-04-02

On a remotely related note:

While logging in from another computer to kugu, I noticed the big "CHEAP SAFE RELIABLE BOT FOR EVE ONLINE" (or something akin) banner over the login screen. I understand it's probably google ads and stuff, but perhaps something can (should?) be done about this? Judging from the average IQ of an average EVE-O user (hue hue hue), some morons may soon go "hurr durr, kugu is sponsored by botters, sue them".

On the other hand, I saw the same banner appearing when browsing "ye olde eve-o forums" so vOv

**poaw** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by Deniera

I think it sucks for anyone hit by this. Paint it as justice or however you want, but for CCP to out of the blue ban a load of people is shitty. I didn't RMT or bot (mainly due to sheer laziness) but I feel bad for the guys who did get kicked in the balls by CCP.

I seriously weep for them. Really, big-ass alligator tears just like Checkbox Poll last year. By weeping I mean laughing, and by tears I mean schadenfreude.

Would you have the same sympathy for them if they complained in Cyrillic?

PS Helios Black knows exactly why he got his roles removed and if Elo wanted him to get them back he'd have them back.

**Dipluz** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by Aokisensei

Well yes, but PL has never been known to troll people, scam people or engage in any dishonourable behavior.

and pigs fly

**Propagandas** · 2012-04-02

Originally Posted by MpozoY

None of the people even remotely seriously talking about this in this thread are goons

Meanwhile I'll mock the hell out of groggy for even bringing it up, seriously that's retarded

Hey guys remember when you (mittani) hired 2 private investigators and a lawyer to figoure out what the deal with WNs ~bot empire~ and may the 1st goon ddos was all about?

Thread: Tales of RMT; The ISK Vanishing Act

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