The blind leading the blind: CSM minutes >2012

[Viribus]

http://www.eveonline.com/council/tra...-9_12_2011.pdf

[spoiler=Warning: shit opinions]Some stuff stuck out to me:

CCP asked if station service hitpoints are too high. The CSM said they are fine, as they are supposed to be difficult to disable. CCP asked if they should be turned into a target for small gangs, with lower EHP; The CSM
said no.

actually struck me as a good idea...

For example, Strategic Cruisers presently offer a 5% bonus to a single leadership bonus, where Command Ships offer a 3% bonus; under the discussed system, Strategic Cruisers might offer a lesser leadership bonus, but that
bonus could apply to multiple (or all) types of leadership

Except no one fits mixed warfare links to anything anyway because warfare links are really only useful if you have the mindlink for them, and all the mindlinks use the same slot.

The CSM and CCP both acknowledged the need to rebalance the Drake, which ‘does everything too well’. CCP is considering giving it a more offensive role like a Raven or Caracal where it would lose the shield
resistance bonus and the 5% Kinetic damage bonus and instead gain a rate of fire bonus and a missile velocity
bonus. The CSM vehemently approved of this idea. CCP and the CSM also agreed that this possible change to
the Drake would help add more uniqueness to the Nighthawk, which is presently overshadowed entirely by the
Drake.

Oh boy. Don't know where to begin with this. I'll just say that nerfing the drake isn't gonna make people fly the nighthawk, 'cause the NH is still terrible compared to the other CS.

I don't like this shit but I'm probably in the minority. I don't really get the impression that bloc-level players understand the minutiae of game mechanics. Oh well.[/spoiler]

[Checkbox Poll]

maybe the csm things something retarded like a titan siegemod is a good idea too

I don't know how you guys could say that structure EHP is okay. All HP and timers should be cut in half.

[Viribus]

More fun stuff:

CCP noted that the Talos needs adjustment upwards; the CSM noted that the Naga is too powerful compared to the Talos. CCP acknowledged this, citing the difficulty of finding a role for blasters as well as the power of passive shield tanking

[Traakile]

I still can't believe a Caldari rail ship is considered "the best" of the tier 3 BCs. Unless I'm wrong again and they're actually shit, which I secretly hope for.

[jimmychrist]

I wonder how this idAuth thing is going to work.

[Traakile]

I wonder how this idAuth thing is going to work.

My guess? Badly.
[s]CCP doesn't seem like the most competent entity when it comes to security. The forum-shit alone made me uncomfortable knowing they have my credit card details.[/s]

Edit: Nevermind, I'm dumb and that thing is actually about bots, not about the master account. My opinion still stays the same, though.

[Opti]

maybe in their weird ass world the naga is better than the talos

ofcourse in that fucked up world they have no clue about the 1000+dps melting face talos everywhere

[Checkbox Poll]

the talos is great for a blaster boat

[jimmychrist]

My guess? Badly.
[s]CCP doesn't seem like the most competent entity when it comes to security. The forum-shit alone made me uncomfortable knowing they have my credit card details.[/s]

Edit: Nevermind, I'm dumb and that thing is actually about bots, not about the master account. My opinion still stays the same, though.

I read it as being about knowing who owns an account. So maybe they're gonna start sending out mails every damn time you want to sell something expensive or some other dumb shit.

[Kovacs]

the talos is great for a blaster boat

I see what you did there.

[Zagam]

http://www.eveonline.com/council/tra...-9_12_2011.pdf

[spoiler=Warning: shit opinions]Some stuff stuck out to me:



actually struck me as a good idea...



Except no one fits mixed warfare links to anything anyway because warfare links are really only useful if you have the mindlink for them, and all the mindlinks use the same slot.



Oh boy. Don't know where to begin with this. I'll just say that nerfing the drake isn't gonna make people fly the nighthawk, 'cause the NH is still terrible compared to the other CS.

I don't like this shit but I'm probably in the minority. I don't really get the impression that bloc-level players understand the minutiae of game mechanics. Oh well.[/spoiler]

Think about the Drake... entire PvP fleets are made of a single hull (and fairly effective at it, too), and its a favorite of PvE types.

Yes, the NH is terrible compared to others, so it could use a bit of a buff. I think alot of the fixes for the NH will come in when CCP looks at the other tier 1 BC, as they have stated there is a need to do so.

[Sentinel Eeex]

My favourite ship, Ferox, will finally be fixed.

[Viribus]

Think about the Drake... entire PvP fleets are made of a single hull (and fairly effective at it, too)

It must be interesting living 18 months in the past, boy are you in for a surprise when IT collapses!

[Propagandas]

tl dr ?

[Tsubutai]

tl dr ?

nerf supercaps some more, make it possible to incapacitate npc station services, nerf tech and make spaceholding the primary source of alliance income.

oh, and fuck drakes.

[woo glin]

tl dr ?

EAS can fire torpedoes into the exhaust vent on supercaps

[Phineas Freak]

2 minutes ago:

The EVE cluster has reached its maximum user limit. Please try logging in again later. You are #454 in line for logon.

it's 2009 again, and i did not even need a time machine.

[MBIII]

One CSM strongly dissented, pointing out that years of experience has shown that technical arms-races are rarely, if ever, cost-effective, and that behavioral detection systems can achieve very low false positive rates and
quick adaptation to new botting practices.CCP Sreegs respectfully disagreed with the statement.

See if you can detect the part were Darius told someone to shut the fuck up.

[Grath]

I have never seen so much fucking stupid in one document, its like the CSM sat there purposely lying to CCP.

I still can't believe a Caldari rail ship is considered "the best" of the tier 3 BCs. Unless I'm wrong again and they're actually shit, which I secretly hope for.

They're the same. With similar fittings, they come out with the exact same fucking damage profile.

Its not even different by one point. Hp differences can be around 10k, but other than that, the same. The Naga is faster and more agile.


The Station service thing pissed me off.

They were introduced as small gang targets. That was literally the whole idea behind them. They get asked if the HP on them is too high and they say NO, are you fucking retarded? The HP on everything in this fucking game is too god damn high, of course they're fucking wrong, it takes a large gang a decent amount of time to incap services, of course a small gang will never get it done.

[Viribus]

I'd rather fly the shield blaster talos than the shield blaster naga.

With comparable fits, the talos has:

+ More effective range (2x TEs)
+ Much better tracking (2x TEs and the hull bonuses[with neutrons and Null, the talos tracks better than a tornado with 800s and EMP])
+ Drones
+ 200m/s more speed
+ Almost 1s faster align
- 8-10k less EHP

But I think the advantages outweigh the EHP difference, especially since a blaster naga has to get a fair bit closer to do damage, since it doesn't fit tracking enhancers.

[Jones Bones]

Here's a rundown of gameplay related stuff. I'm going to ignore the economy, PLEX, security, botting, etc.

Null Sec, Supers, etc.
- Nerf Tech
- Nerf Supers (not enough Supers die is central argument); titan tracking, EWAR invulnerability, give SCs "super scrams"?, new class of capital to tackle supers, etc.
- Add attackable station services to NPC null
- Make drones have bounties (buff mining \o/), reduce DR true sec
- Nerf Super jump range rate (a jump drive spin up timer)
- Refocus on Sov > moons, IHUB changes, alliance level taxation
- Siege mode for supers
- Destructible outpost, not if but when

Low Sec
- Use FW to test 0.0 SOV changes
- Allow alliances in FW
- Move certain mineral types to low only
- CSM doesn't give a shit about pirates
- Make system fights worthwhile

WHs
- Make invading easier
- A WH "stabilizer" was mentioned
- Lots of "OMG POS SUX FIX THIS"


High Sec
- A completely new aggression system
- Nerf incursion farming, but buff the actual incursion progression
- Incursions more dynamic


Ships
- Buff Talos
- Remove Shield Resist and Kin buff from Drake, add launch rate and velocity bonus (NERF DAT FAT BITCH)
- Allow EAS to ignore Super EWAR Invuln
- T1 frigates and cruiser need buff
- BCs, tier 1 too useless, tier 2 too useful
- AF changes (these are discussed more in depth on the FHC forums btw)
- T2 triage was lol useless
- Make T3 bonus ships more dynamic, but CS bonuses stronger
- Possible NOS changes

[Malcanis]

Some derpitude but overall a good program IMO. Personally I think a RoF/velocity drake will be a horrorweapon in PvP (LET ME JUST EFT THAT HAM DRAKE DEEPS FOR YOU GOOD SIR), but a jillion bears will cry out in anguish so...

[Jm24]

I'm going to drive by station services with my small gang supercap fleet so this 100 man corp needs to rep something like us sov holders. Spreading the fun around I see

[Ron Mexxico]

hey man. people use more than just the native link type on T3s. just saying

[Tsubutai]

Some derpitude but overall a good program IMO. Personally I think a RoF/velocity drake will be a horrorweapon in PvP (LET ME JUST EFT THAT HAM DRAKE DEEPS FOR YOU GOOD SIR), but a jillion bears will cry out in anguish so...

Since it'd be losing the 25% kinetic damage bonus, its maximum DPS would only increase by 8%. On the other hand, it'd gain full damage type selection and the ability to lob HAMs out to just under 30 km.

[Carlton Banks]

(1:46:05 PM) the_mittani: you want to lower them so people say 'shoot services' more
(1:46:19 PM) the_mittani: and thus more structure shots are slammed into small gang activities?
(1:46:24 PM) the_mittani: fuck more structure shots, thanks

Structure shooting sucks, so let's make sure it sucks.

[Checkbox Poll]

you know a ship that could jump to cynos that could only tackle capital ships would be bad ass

[Propagandas]

haha let me ecm your titan with my eas hurrr

[Scotch]

The CSM praised Crucible’s addition of implants on pod killmails, and noted a desire to see ‘insufficient clone’ notifications on killmails as well.

All that matters.

[BiggerDangDude]

The Mittani must have been out sick this day because this shit is fucking retarded. Am I giving him more credit than is due?

[Viribus]

haha let me ecm your titan with my eas hurrr

Imagine: super-tackling keres

[teds]

i quite like the drake change, providing the ferox gets a little buffed and keeps it's res bonus.

[Messoroz]

Except no one fits mixed warfare links to anything anyway because warfare links are really only useful if you have the mindlink for them, and all the mindlinks use the same slot.

Mixed links are used very often in wspace when jewing, mainly the skirmish point link combined with armor links for armor pve gangs so that sleepers can be webbed down from 90km+ while getting juicy resist bonuses.

Nano gangs sometimes mix up links at times between point links and the siege shield links. Though the majority do just stick to purely skirmish links, there are legitimate cases for mixing links even without mindlinks.

[Malcanis]

i quite like the drake change, providing the ferox gets a little buffed and keeps it's res bonus.

RoF + Velocity HAM drakes would fucking own

[Scotch]

If you want to fix the Ferox give it bonuses to auto-cannons.

[Viribus]

Mixed links are used very often in wspace when jewing, mainly the skirmish point link combined with armor links for armor pve gangs so that sleepers can be webbed down from 90km+ while getting juicy resist bonuses.

Nano gangs sometimes mix up links at times between point links and the siege shield links. Though the majority do just stick to purely skirmish links, there are legitimate cases for mixing links even without mindlinks.

It does happen quite rarely for pvp, I just don't see the advantage of a T3 having a minor bonus for everything instead of a good bonus for one thing, when the vast majority of the time you're going to be predominantly using one kind of link, as that's how mindlinks work (and the mindlink bonus stacks with the hull bonus)

[Jm24]

You must spread rep before handjobing scotch again

[teds]

RoF + Velocity HAM drakes would fucking own

agreed. they're already pushing like what, 700 dps with some imps and maybe heat? lets say it gets the same EHP as an LSE cane (probably more) and the little bit about if it's in range - it doesn't miss

i'm wet i can't deny

[Malcanis]

Eh, give it 7 turret slots and the PG/CPU to fit 7x 250mm rails in a remotely worthwhile config and it's good to go.

Personally I favour giving the tier 1 BCs a big ole sig radius reduction so that their hull size is closer to cruisers than battleships and they actually get a meaningful damage reduction vs large weapons.

[Mfume]

Think about the Drake... entire PvP fleets are made of a single hull (and fairly effective at it, too)

You are dumb if you missed out on Drakes getting facerolled by basically anything not AC Canes and the introduction of massed Welpfleet.

[teds]

i'd just shift them all up to the level of current tier2 bcs (well hurricanes) in terms of tank and fitting, and say goodbye to tiers.

[Teak]

I have never seen so much fucking stupid in one document, its like the CSM sat there purposely lying to CCP.

The CSM members are all retards, so not much surprise there.

[DurrHurrDurr]

I think it's great because of how mad everyone is getting.

[tgr]

opcorn:

[tgr]

aww still no popcorn emoticon

[Serra]

You are dumb if you missed out on Drakes getting facerolled by basically anything not AC Canes and the introduction of massed Welpfleet.

And yet ev0ke is doing just fine with their emo drake fleets.

[daru]

Nobody small gang roams(2-5 people), let alone solo's, in null sec, cuz there's nothing to kill.

If you ever find anything, it's a retarded gate camp, where you need 10+ to take them on.

Instead of talking about stupid shit, how about you start implementing things that actually makes the game fun to play?

Like giving people real incentives to kills shit in belts, and maybe not having mining in null sec be such a colossal fucking waste of time.

This way small gang roaming might actually find something, other than gay drag bubbles and gate camps.


Don't get me wrong..... I can understand why people wouldn't want to waste their time on retarded belt spawns with horrible bounties, or make 20M an hour in a hulk, in hostile space, just waiting to get raped, hence no one does it.


Null sec space is stale as fuck, no "Vampire" function, Faction Warfare or player-bounty overhaul will ever chance this.

Only thing mildly interesting in this whole post, is the possibility of destroying stations.

[Iratus]

Cloak Hunters: CCP brought up the possibility of a future cloak-hunting ship or mechanic as a hypothetical; this was described as ‘more like finding a submarine than pulling a blanket off’ a cloaked ship. The CSM was
cautiously positive about the idea of a cloak-hunting vessel of some kind

I'M NOT INSANE! BOTH THE CSM AND CCP (CAUTIOUSLY) AGREE WITH ME!!!!


Wait wait wait... shit.

[tgr]

I know of one guy I've been having "discussions" with on eve-o who'll be pissed off by that cloaking change. "wormholes will be safer than hisec" etc.

[Viribus]

The idea I suggested to White Tree is that when you activate a cloak, your client starts a memory leak and eventually freezes.