The facts of life (in eve):
1. Highsec income will never get a serious nerf
2. Nullsec income will never get a serious boost over highsec income
3. Nullsec risk will only go down, not up
The facts of life (in eve):
1. Highsec income will never get a serious nerf
2. Nullsec income will never get a serious boost over highsec income
3. Nullsec risk will only go down, not up
If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
Fear the KKM
You are in a -.1 doing forsakens?Originally Posted by Manfred Hideous
Before this idea my original idea was to give pvp roaming gangs the ability to generate isk. Something along the lines of dropping a low-mid hp temp structure in enemy space that gives them x % of all the isk made by the local bears with a very short RF timer. If the locals destroy it, all the pvpers who destroyed the box get the isk back. IF not, when the box expires the roaming gang gets the isk.
Gives both attackers and defenders a chance to pvp, to earn a bit of isk doing it, and encourage space to be lived in. The % that gets put up for grabs should be low enough that the defends could choose to just ignore it and suck up the isk loss if they really wanted to.
It might be a forlorn. I can't keep them straight. I'm pretty sure we have both.
They've been there for a while but CCP buffed them a little to make them worth actually doing.
Why do I feel like I'll lose a ratting ship soon... LOL
Yeah they boosted sanctums , heavens and the smaller forsaken and forlons , then nerfed them again ., i just asked because i tougth forsaken only spawned in .5 up.
I'll login at lunchtime in 30-45 min and verify what I can get.Yeah they boosted sanctums , heavens and the smaller forsaken and forlons , then nerfed them again .
Yep. Forlorn and forsaken. One of each.
Its obvious to everyone that it is easier to make more money in highsec because of risk. You can fly pimped out pirate/T2 BS, without stoppages caused by hostiles. Whether its missions or incursions doesnt matter. I personally like to a little risk when I'm making my money, so I do missions out in curse with a local full of neuts. Sure, sometimes they try to probe you down, but its all good fun.
But the bottome line is none of this will change. CCP wont nerf highsec too hard because it would cause droves of bears to leave the game. The flip side is they can't boost nullsec incomes without opening up an isk firehose. The only way out if it would be something like dronelands or mining moon minerals in belts for huge profits, but they just said they wll remove the drone poo aspect entirely.
If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
Fear the KKM
Manny, I agree that high sec can't get hit too hard, and definitely agree that it supports the rest of the game in more ways than one, and my intent is not to force pilots into null sec. But my concern is that balancing will only be handled through increasing items instead of decreasing. This style of balance is obviously preferable to CCP because it's more pallarable to the consumer, but it also has long term deliteriois effects on the game. Games Workshop has used this style of balance for years now (colorfully labelled 'codex creep, by players) and it has resulted in a game where the newest tweaked races/units are always the most powerful, and the oldest are the weakest. Blizzard uses the same method of customer appeasement and the results are similar.
No you are reading that wrong, I'm saying that with the mach alone I can make a 100 in highsec without resorting to spreadsheeting. while the 140 I make is dualboxing so thats like 70 mill spread on 2 characters blitzing those hubs pre tax. so in reality I end up with like in between 100 and 120 mil an our after tax. While in highsec with missions I get the around 100 mill flat out as I can bypass the tax if I want. And then I'm not talking about incursions and you can hit around in between 90 and 100 mill in bounties alone if you run a decent fleet. With lp you can add another 30 mill on top if you go for quick sales if would bypass corp taxes in both cases that 120/130 would rise up to over 150 easily.
so to put this in perspective the mill/hour I can pull of in pve if I push it:
Machariel + archon blitzing forlorn hubs = 100/120
Mission running in a machariel = 100
high sec Incursion blitzing with good fleet = 150
Its kinda stupid that I need to dualbox 2 expensive ships in 0.0 to get around the same amount of income that 1 of those ships on its own would make in highsec. And then you would also want to increase the risk on this. Which basicly means that have to start spamming directional every 3-4 seconds to see if someone who didn't get reported jumped in and even then there is a chance that I will get caught by a cloaky if I'm unlucky and lose around around 1.5 to 4 bill in assets. There would be no reason at all to actually try and rat in 0.0 at that point unless you want to increase the amount of time spend ratting and decrease the amount of time spend actual pvping by flying worse ships.
Don't fly pip ships if you're afraid of losing them. I rat mostly in a Domi. replacing it is almost pocket change 9even though they've risen to twice the cost since I unsubbed).
I'm not sure if you really don't get it or if you just don't want to get it.
Its not about the fact of losing ships. Its the fact that there is a risk you might lose them and have much less of an income. While in highsec you have no risk and make much more. Most people already don't like to rat and rather spend their time pvping. Now with a delayed or no local, ratting would turn into a directional scan spammfest and then you can still get tackled due to the many ways of missing that ship on scan and lose your ship. You will see an exodus of people to highsec so they can make isk for pvp instead of having to rat to replace a pve ship and they will return to 0.0 for pvp. So in the end you end up with roaming gangs looking for targets that aint there who then get blobbed by bunch of guys who have been waiting for something to come in their space to kill as they have nothing else to do in between that except for ship spinning.
I agree with Mr. Hideous that nullsec needs to be a dangerous place, but maybe what we are seeing is a shift in how thing works. In the past people fought to defend or expand their space. Now, they don't live in their space, and deploy to far flung regions to do "stuff". Given enough time this may lead to more Black Legion like roaming groups that dont need space, and let their individual members make isk in their own way.
If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
Fear the KKM
They should add NPC mining ops. Like a bunch of mining ships actually mining asteroids and guarded by small fleets. They should show up in 0.0 only. Also NPC small roaming gangs. Because NPCs just sitting in a belt and chilling makes no sense. Also it'd fuck with botters.
?"eve's a bad mmo, really bad, it's only saving grace is the people playing it, which i guess doesn't say great things about the people playing other MMOs"
so im getting standings up so that I have a lvl4 agent for when highsec incursions are properly nerfed (ie the next next patch, because the next patch won't do shit)
30 lvl1s in and i'm ready to commit seppuku
COSMOS + data centers = L4 faction standings with (somewhat) less pain.
[I]spherical monkey fears and envies[/I]
This is something I could get behind.
I would want to attach balls to all my iterons.
And what pray tell would those Black Legion like roaming groups shoot, once all the space defenders have left
Well, I think Goonswarm may be another example. If over time smart jewgoons head to empire for incursions and missions, and pvp goons go off to invade jita, live in delve, roam curse, etc. their space will become more barren. All that will remain are the morons who don't know how to make isk and the tengubots.
If this dystopian future comes about it would be harder to get fights. Like this past month when TEST were deployed to take space for lolrazor. Their were tons of people roaming their space, but no testies willing to undock. The result was roaming gangs fighting each other in Fountain. If your only goal is to get fights you don't really care what their reasons are.
So, if down the road people realize nullsec is unprofitable, and if the nullsec blocs stagnate (I know we say this twice a year and are always wrong), you will probably see those who want pvp picking up roots and going off to find it while the jews go to better jew spots. Its the way of the world (of eve).
If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
Fear the KKM
No troll,
How is this future you paint any different from the present?
Your right, its kinda here now. Some people havent woken up yet to realize it unfortunately. I am pointing out that this trend will continue, becoming worse for EVE in my opinion until nullsec recieves a major reworking.
If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
Fear the KKM
That's what they're trying to do with the removal of alloys and meta 0 drops (amongst other changes like to incursions etc.).
Nullsec mining becomes a necessity for good yield on high end minerals.
i too would visit fountain when its obvious test isnt there right now and then bitch about having nobody to fight
durr hurr
That'd be cool. It should be a random thing that any rat can do from inside point range. Some of them should be rat interdictors. Gate rats would be all kinds of fun when they bubble gates at random.
You do know that the very fact it would make null more dangerous for ratters means they would all run off to empire so they could earn money for their pvp ships. The game would be in ruins, null would be empty, and those who were there would constantly be POS or stationed up. It would look nothing like the null of today that we so love.
There is currently very little risk as it is. Adding risk AND rewards would be nice. Making rats scram would wreak havoc on bots more than regular players.
sansha and gurista are all we need
Ron Mexxico - Broski North
Helios Black > not mad ron
Also nullsec is still great as a place for newbies to make isk, to live near where they fight, to have a wide variety of things to do, and to work with each other and with bittervets. Some people even enjoy the frisson of watching a gang's approach in the intel channel and waiting until the absolute last moment to warp to safety. While L4s make more money they are absolutely boring as fuck.
No one is saying nullsec should suck. They are saying boost income, increase risk. If you want to jew in peace empire is for you. Its the old argument that you shouldnt be in nullsec if losing a raven fills you with dread.
If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
Fear the KKM
I'd be pretty cool with anything that makes mining far more important and compulsory. As long as it provides bodies in space. Causing significant disparity from hi to low to nullsec will draw people further out for rewards. Miners need protection, they bring friends, to get it to market you need to transport, which is activity. Increasing production capacity in null sec would help. Stuff would be more expensive, but they need to be to attract people to mining, and make it something worth risking nullsec and ships for. Nerfing drone loot will help. Vastly reducing mineral generation from module drops would help as well. Perhaps change moon mining so that as a passive effort towers produce much much less. Then introduce either a new ship "Hulk 2012" that can mine the moon with some player involvement far faster, or a module that can be fit to an existing ship. The idea being that these moon mining ships would not be able to take off as fast and could be subject to interdiction. It also lets 'small players' in, even if only for a short time to 'ninja' moon minerals for w/e reason.
Bring people into space by enticing slow moving ships that make lots of isk that would require some sort of escort to protect is my thoughts.
So are sanctums. Fun or interesting isn't what keeps them in highsec, the idea is to grind the fuck out of profitable content so you spend the absolute minimum time getting dat spacemoney.
Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.
there are tools to force alliances to stay somewhat near to their space, people just complain and cry and whine about having to use them so no one ever does it v0v
Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.
you've never stuck around when anything was ever remotely hard, so why do you think anyone else would?
Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.
Such as? (No troll question).
The only reason we stay near home is that we have a large contingent of pilots who enjoy the building of 'space castles' and are ~proud~ of holding space. It's a draw for some people in EVE and that's the type who have come to FA for the most part. The only reason we enjoy staying near home is the use of jump bridges to cut enemy fleets off and reduced fuel costs on pos's so we're more efficient on moon income.
Otherwise, there's not much benefit to actually holding the sov. It's expensive, requires a fuck ton of work and the effort vs. reward is barely there. We do it because that's the game that some people want to play. We've had the discussion amongst leadership a few times where we ask our selves the benefits of holding the regions, being in a coalition and blobbing the fuck out of our enemies.
Every time it comes up we always get the same answers.
1. We do it because some people in eve (most of my leaders included) have a sense of pride with having a 'flag' to put down and claim their turf.
2. Holding the sov allows us to create a castle so-to-speak which is the part I don't fully understand, but it's a sense of ownership.
3. The coalition we're in provides for a TON of content. The drama, fights and the fact that we constantly are picking fights with everyone makes it fun.
Would I like to play EVE without the hassle of Sov? Sometimes.
Would I like to have less blues and sometimes ride bikes on my own? Sometimes.
The problem is, creating the content requires more effort than I'm wiling to put into it. With a coalition, allies and a group who work to keep the 'castle' up, it makes less effort to play the game. I've surrounded myself with people who enjoy this aspect of EVE where you haven't. Therefore, our ~endgame~ is different.
And the bottom line, the only thing 'forcing' us to stay home with our sov is the fact that we've got towers to fuel and PI to maintain.
I'll be honest, I've not been in a position where I was leader and it was 'hard'. My biggest challenge these days is managing people and trying to play politics (I fucking hate politics and I'm a horrible diplomat (see: freightergate)).
E: I'm pretty humble about this and realize it. It's no big secret and something I'd like to focus on 'next' with FA.
When you say "You", be careful because we as an alliance have changed quite a bit. The space we've run from in our history isn't my doing. I'd like to think we've matured a bit past that. Our claiming of Fade was kind of a test to that. We had minimal support from the coalition and did most of the structure grinding on our own. We suffered a lot of losses (most so fucking retarded I still shake my head), but we did it.
yeah, soho torres of ncdot is getting us fight with init and xdeath, this makes sense.
jk, you're stupid as fuck.
you realize i quoted grim and not you in that post, right?
Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.
Ha, you mean that one time the NC died and I left before the final collapse?
If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
Fear the KKM
It's very true. I'm not going to go back and forth with you on it, however I do log in. There is almost always an FA fleet up and we are either dieing in a fire or killing other people.
Part of the reason we have this 'utopia' is that people come to us. They bring the engagements and roaming gangs to our front door.
See, you don't hold space, therefore the 10 man gang you bring, then leave with... doesn't have an effect on us. Cause in 20 minutes, another 10-15 man gang from another alliance will come through. And stop crying about 40 dudes fleeting up when you go into someone's home system looking for a fight. You're very well aware that the skillset and experience in combat we work with is far different from the one you do. Our 40 dudes is a goodfite to your 10-15.
I do however agree that the timer > fight > timer > blueball shit gets old fast. I'm pretty bored with it myself.
on that note, put PL into some T1 (T2 fit) cruisers and come meet me on the L-C undock. We'll fight you with ~honoure~.
Yeah, but you were saying that there are things keeping people tied to the sov, I was just responding to it, no matter who you were talking to.
EDIT: Oh shit... my bad. I just read back up. I'm dumb... whatever.
Preaching to the choir on losing cheap ships.
As for ganking ratters, yeah that's part of the fun and I say that being more often the prey than the hunter. Having policing fleets means more small groups of pvp willing guys running around. It also provides opportunities to those of us who enjoy the thrill of killing someone without backup. If I someday manage to tackle a BS in a smaller ship, it's no forgone conclusion that I'll win. If the ratter wins or drives me off, they'll be able to tell all their carebear friends about how they drove off the failtastic "pirate".
Hey hommie play it any way you want, last week all your fights came off NCdot timers, you'll excuse me if the day to day workings of Black Legiondot don't occupy my every waking second but you've been doing the same thing we've been doing for fights: Riding other peoples timers.
Just because you've been out dancing with a new partner for the first time in a while don't be all butthurt because I didn't know, the last time we hear anything from your alliance it was Elo coming on to call us all pussies because we didn't want to get dragged into a fuck ton of bullshit that people spent the day lying to us about.
BUT FEEL FREE TO CALL IT HOW YOU WANT MANG.
EDIT: and you fighting Initdot or XIX doesn't validate Zagdul's made up world where roaming in EVE is somehow fun to do. Its the same amount of fun as icemining, or belt mining, or PI. Its just you clicking a jump button over and over and over and over and over and over until you realize fuck it I've just roamed from Syndicate to Paragon Soul and back and haven't seen a fucking thing besides covops jumping through gates.
How much of this is that Eve nullsec is dead, and how much of it is that you've got a Pandemic Legion ticker next to your name? Delayed local may help you find fights, but they will be the ganking ratter type fights, not the small gang fights you seem to want. Granted, ganking ratting tengus, drakes and ravens is its own fun.
I'd like to hear from the WH roamers. You know, the 10 man T3+SB prober gangs that go barging through WH space and get kills? These guys seem to get lots of kills on roams (my corp mates being some of them) and watching their killboard cut a swath of misery through WH space is amusing (and helpful, since i know they've moved on...or have they? Better stay inside the POS shields...)
i dont have more luck than other people. i have significantly less than most dudes, tbh.
who are you with?
Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.
What Grath will probably say in response to this is that groups may form defense fleets in an attempt to avoid getting their tengus, drakes and ravens ganked~
or they might give up and biomass who knows
There would have been more swearing and I would have worked an insult in somewhere but yes, basically yes.
Right now they don't. But if the ratting earns enough to justify them paying for a form of protection that they will need, then I bet you there would be people willing to protect their ratters.
Are you seriously so thick that you don't see how this story actually VALIDATES the other position? People will fight to protect their carebears, IFF you can actually threaten them.
Let me tell you about trying to form a defense fleet to take on 10 Pandemic Legion guys that scrammed a alliance drake/raven/tengu before they kill it.
Actually BL does a pretty damned good job of getting ~goodfites~ out of roaming, judging by the number of times our subcaps fleet up to fight them.
If you're so hard up to get a fight in a hurry that you're bitching about waiting in our home system while our 62,000 people notice a jabber ping and form up, maybe you should hit up one of our FCs and let them know you're coming first
hey grath, just got another fight w/o a timer involving two other groups who actually pvp for the fuck of it.
Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.
You're living in your own private Idaho, aren't you?
[IMG]http://www.kugutsumen.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=4761&dateline=1305299590[/IMG]
why arent you guys up north? thats where literally all the fights are.
Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.
Hey, don't bring Idaho into this. We're decent folks, we just get forgotten about.
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