Yeah I would not be at all surprised if the next communique from CCP on this thing starts with the words "After considering player feedback..." or something to that effect.
Yeah I would not be at all surprised if the next communique from CCP on this thing starts with the words "After considering player feedback..." or something to that effect.
I like how PL keeps saying supers give people with less subcap numbers a chance. Supers give people with more supers a "chance", having less subcaps is not a requirement.
What if it was the CFC that had the dominant super fleet (and at this rate, they probably will)? then and only then you would want them nerfed because you'd be dominated in both subcap and super numbers and unable to ever break the status quo?
If x counters a blob, the blob can simply switch to x to beat it with more x. The only way you could beat a blob without this happening is if x required more skill, which obviously supers don't.
supers giving people with less subcap numbers a chance was only a coincidence, theoretically the people with the much bigger blob would also have more supers, in which cause you would cry that they are op.
The only thing is, the people satisfied with the change outweigh the people dissatisfied with it. I mean, really, the Titans DO need to be screwed with. This is a fairly drastic change to be a temporary fix, and with a war going on weighing so heavily on the use of Titans and supers, I'll be interested on how CCP takes the feedback. And if they DO go through with it, I look forward to seeing how alliances that rely heavily on Titan support (Raiden, NC., PL, etc). Your move, CCP, your move.Originally Posted by jimmychrist
The problem with that theory is that the 'big blob' is still a large collection of players, and if a huge mass of players beats down the opposition, inevitably the huge mass turns on itself (see: DRF).
PL is a relatively small mass of players which can drop on an organization of any size (save for a well-conducted coalition with equal supers) and win. That's why supers needed a fix; PL proved that a sufficient quantity of supers could trump even the largest feasible fleet of subcaps.
Hi stupid.
We fought BoB outnumbered in supercaps and did just fine, we then took on the NC before the Drone RUS had moved into the area, meaning it was us against the NC's formidable superfleet, and we did just fine.
You wear them down one at a time, its a simple strategy of attrition. The CFC has a fairly large superfleet right now, if they started dying one or two at a time, the numbers for that fleet would slowly start to slide until it was manageable or wasn't fielded at all.
We've been fighting people with 'More' than us for about 4 years now, and I doubt you'll find a "nerf x" thread around from us seriously pushing as a group.
Or god forbid throwing fights to prove a point.
I honestly don't see why Goons are so happy about this change.
In effect Greyscale just took a colossal, fetid and an historic turd on Goonswarms collective face. The trillions of Isk that Mittens pumped into GF's ~super-secret~ titan blob program have just been partially voided.
PL and others at least milked Age of Titan's for all it was worth. Goon titans have so far only shot at approximately 5 (plus or minus one) POSes and spent the rest of their time up DBRB's cavernous butthole.
More than that - if there are no titan blobs to worry about - everyone will start legitimately and articulately complaining (read:bitching) about Goon numbers - calling for a direct nerf to blob efficiency, and this time backed by the titan nerf precedent.
On the other hand; I sort of understand you. Today's smug will be remembered and honored for generations.
When your endgame is a T2 drake it's kind of hard to not get excited about other people's shit getting nerfed. tee-too motherfucker, tank AND guns.
incase you didnt notice, titans can still shoot large things
shock horror
But PL is a mobile entity; there's no flag or base of operations to be taken from PL. An entity like IT, NC, WN., etc has well-defined territory, and if EVE history shows us anything, it's that an entity dies within weeks of that territory being taken. PL won't be killed like IT/NC/WN. because there's not some ultimate station timer battle that will force them into high-sec. At best, you could get them to drop everything on a Tech POS, and even if they lose that, well, fuck it. There's a lot of Tech to be taken.
then again maybe this is just the beginning of an amamake titan smartbomb boost
Goons and pets are smug because we know titans need to be nerfed for the overall game, just like we know tech does. So despite owning huge amounts of tech and accumulating titans at a blistering rate because that's the game we've been presented with until now, we'd still like to see it all changed for the betterment of everyone because we'd rather have less power in a good game than be ownzoning faggots in a shitty one. That's the significance of people who have the choice to yet choose not to be "elite pvp".
Against my wishes, I want Peregrin Falls like a hooker wants some dick.
You seem to be making a lot of EVE history remarks that are just not true. IT, NC, and WN all died long before their space was taken.
Fuck man, IT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING.
Have none of you looked at the tracking numbers for titans? Do you not realize how much better a blaster tracking fit erebus tracks than a 1400 Mael? Do you not realize, that even with a 50% nerf in tracking, THEY STILL TRACK BETTER THAN MAELSTROMS.
I know I'm a little late to this party, but I have some critical philosophical insight to share regarding dicks.
1. Grath was the first person to bring dicks into this discussion.
2. Grath thinks and talks about titans. A lot.
3. As we all know, Titans are giant space dicks of questionable cost efficiency.
.: Grath spends more time talking and thinking about dicks than anyone else on this forum.
EDIT: It seems Manny and Jeffraider (twice) beat Grath to the punch - proving conclusively, once and for all, that PL are faggots.
hehe
So uh, let's not touch titans, then, because even with this change, they're still ownzoning?
Did you miss the part about 'some ultimate station timer battle'? Yes, I think you did.
In the words of one John Romero, the man behind such brilliant titles as Daikatana:
Suck it down.
the actual current details of the nerf mean nothing
they've stated their intent, and they will achieve it, even if they hamfist their way there (which they won't, they'll just adjust to player feedback like they did with the supercarrier nerf)
Are you a retard? I literally did not touch your "pl doesnt have sov hence is invulnerable" pubbie bullshit line, I replied to your "An entity like IT, NC, WN., etc has well-defined territory, and if EVE history shows us anything, it's that an entity dies within weeks of that territory being taken." which, like I previously wrote, in the cases of IT, NC, WN. is just not true.
No, no one really gives a shit about tracking, it's the accompanying scanres/target thing that is really causing the ruckus.
Also we're mad at CCP once again proving they eat crayons.
Pretty much this in most cases as when an alliance holds space for a few months or maybe years they do something stupid and let their space define who they are and when it is taken away, they are essentially taken away
(4:14:52 AM) grimbold_dengrist: all Marivauder does as a mod is post about being a mod
(11:47:38 AM) endie: If you lot don't stop that I'm moving this corp to test
Make no change now and instead spend that time programing something that works, instead of making a lip service patch that does nothing at all.
Its more of the continual bandaids like TiDi that CCP has put in place so that they don't have to do any real game design work.
Like how is it possible to be so happy about a patch that doesn't make your sub cap fleet any safer than it is now? What are you achieving in the patch except wasting time that was better spent on the overarching problem with 0.0 warfare?
How are you in any way solving anything when this doesn't change anything?
Whats going to happen is simple:
People will keep their titans in the box for about a month while we carry on with business as usual, while introducing the newer fleet shit we're hashing out now.
During that time titans stop dying because the rest of EVE is too gunshy to work it out.
45 days after the patch the rest of the game will pick up on it and start emulating whatever it is we're doing with our titans at the time.
60 days after the patch the game will be the exact same as it is now because Titans still hit fine and supercarriers can still RR them.
NONE of the problems with supercaps are being fixed in this patch, they're not even being addressed.
5 months ago, Mynas, in his infinite wisdom started some shit sucking countdown and everybody cranked up the "Winter is Coming" line, while the rest of us sat back and went "Hey guys this isn't really doing anything besides removing my 100m3 drone bay from my titan". Turns out a Nyx can still do 3500 dps or better to a Maelstrom even after the change if you know what the fuck you're doing. The hit point nerf made the patch not totally useless, but in its current incarnation, this patch doesn't get that saving grace.
So this is us, telling you that this patch is a waste of time, its not actually helping the sub cap fleets survive against the titans, its not actually doing what you want, the outcome will be laughably bad and the only thing that happens in this is that station games playing regular caps get a boost because now titans can't lock them before they can deagro and dock.
NONE of us are against a patch that tones down titans, but its supposed to be part of a large role revision, not some bullshit where some fat icelandic dickhead just goes "ok we're going to drop these 2 numbers and hope it fixes the problem"
You anger makes you focused, makes you stronger.
EDIT: No really. You post "THE TROOF" when you go on tangents. WTF are the CFC going to do against 100+ Titans after this change? Exactly.
You keep providing evidence for a nerf and yet your seemingly frantic posts to the contrary keep appearing after I press refresh.
It's almost as if he's not wanting just "a nerf" but something more specific. But I don't think that's a thing, surely the best way to balance something is just to pull some random stats down right?
You read that one part, but you didn't get the gist of the post.
They're nerfing the tracking on a titan but its not actually solving the problem, so how is it in anyway doing what its supposed to? I mean this isn't fucking rocket science here, its like saying I don't like standing in the rain while standing in the rain, don't just fucking talk about it DO something about it.
Also
Never stop recruiting these guys here.
CONFRIMIGN I AM CONFUSE
DO WE SUPPROT CHANGE O NOT?
I think the message was clear from PL, but incase it wasn't -- let me iterate:
We don't want Titan combat ability nerfed. We want it removed.
But we want to get something in return. We want an exciting new role for the ship, that benefits the larger entity that fields it. Something unique, something worth of the price tag and the rediculously high SP character permanently locked in the ship (until someone sets him free ofc).
Don't give us stopgap measures that serve no purpose but to appease the public who do not understand better that the change is only designed to buy time, but will fail to do even that because more groups will simply band together ever closer to field ever increasing numbers to compensate for the indivitual effectiveness lost.
But then... I've been waving this flag for 4 years now. I doubt anyone will listen now.
If that's any consolation, they did listen to the logoff suggestions. Do not lose hope yet, my very finnish captain.I've been waving this flag for 4 years now
Your ~serious post~ ruined the gimmick.
I'm not a fan of these scan-res shenanigans. There are probably more elegant solutions to the problem.
[05:28:32] Damienwhat Solette > friend said, if only they didn't have those 2 falcons there, i said they have 3, and he said that just says they don't want to do anything fair, just want to be dicks about it like not normal dicks but big black huge cocks
You'll have to excuse us if we're a bit thick and couldn't see that opinion, since we've seen a few of the resident PL posters here sperg the fuck out both the first time Soundwave hinted at a titan nerf, and now this time, about how it was unfair about how it was the ~only viable counter to the blob~.
No one here is saying to leave titans alone. They do need nerfed, but this is fucking horrible.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/QmauB.gif[/IMG]
#shadoo4csm8
The elegant solution is to remove Supers, Carriers, BS, BCs, HACs and T3s so that the only necessary element in any fleet is quantity.
It would also make EVE boring as fuck.
Maybe we're not an homogeneous entity but instead a collection of individuals with individual opinions that no one else speaks for.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/UhWbu.gif[/IMG]
We've been pushing to have titans removed from combat as well but that's no reason to leave them making subcaps obsolete in the meantime. And given grath's bleeting over how upset he is that he can no longer wax subcap fleets with titan fleets screaming devsploits and that all that matters now is numbers it seems...unlikely...that he has this sort of reasoned intelligent position.I think the message was clear from PL, but incase it wasn't -- let me iterate:
We don't want Titan combat ability nerfed. We want it removed.
But we want to get something in return. We want an exciting new role for the ship, that benefits the larger entity that fields it. Something unique, something worth of the price tag and the rediculously high SP character permanently locked in the ship (until someone sets him free ofc).
Don't give us stopgap measures that serve no purpose but to appease the public who do not understand better that the change is only designed to buy time, but will fail to do even that because more groups will simply band together ever closer to field ever increasing numbers to compensate for the indivitual effectiveness lost.
But then... I've been waving this flag for 4 years now
Agree with Shadoo on this, personally I think they should reinforce the role of titans as ultimate fleet boosters, including toning down the ridiculous T3 fleetboosting capabilities. Nice thing about boosters is bringing more than a handful is a waste of time. I've also tried to figure out a way to have a titan pull aggro for a fleet as a tank, but can't come up with anything that couldn't be abused with a blob.I think the message was clear from PL, but incase it wasn't -- let me iterate:
We don't want Titan combat ability nerfed. We want it removed.
But we want to get something in return. We want an exciting new role for the ship, that benefits the larger entity that fields it. Something unique, something worth of the price tag and the rediculously high SP character permanently locked in the ship (until someone sets him free ofc).
Don't give us stopgap measures that serve no purpose but to appease the public who do not understand better that the change is only designed to buy time, but will fail to do even that because more groups will simply band together ever closer to field ever increasing numbers to compensate for the indivitual effectiveness lost.
But then... I've been waving this flag for 4 years now
Other than that, I agree with Grath, these changes are pretty minor for any alliance of baseline competence, hopefully CCP has a lot more up their sleeves than just this.
Also if you want a counter to 'the blob' demand a meaningful buff to large smartbombs already
Really because its almost exactly word for word what I've been posting.
The argument about it currently being a blob counter is in itself an entirely different subject than that.
Then theres your obsession with my ass.
CCP Greyscale sounds like he doesn't have the authority or resource to make actual code changes. And don't even mention artwork. So what changes to static data WOULD work as a stopgap hack pending a complete rework of the ship class?
If its really as big of a problem as people seem to think it is, then I'd say that the complete rework of the ship should be one of the top 3 priorities of the summer release. I mean, nothing short of that is really going to work.
I actually agree with you here. And as shadoo said above, it doesnt need a nerf, it just needs its own special use, outside of a DD/Space taxi.
I've been seeing a lot of Goons smugging about tears, but not a lot of tears.
A good bomber FC.
You're.When your ahead of the game you are untouchable NBD NBD NBDCCP made a huge error in the change not gonna point it out but the game is afoot gentleman.
25M+ AoE damage (sig dependent, like bombs) upon destruction of a titan, in a 250km radius -- it's rather easy to code. If titans in your titan blob are tracking fit, or have low hitpoints, and one goes down, it can cause a chain reaction destroying your (or enemy's) entire supercap fleet.
To be honest, pure numbers aren't everything. There are many small gang PvP alliances, corps, groups that manage to take down fleets multiple times their size with either good tactics, or just plain out countering the apposing fleet concept. This being said, having 600 man fleets certainly helps.
I actually hate you, fully, but this is one of the best ideas you've ever had, and I would love to see it
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