Titan Changes

[Tsubutai]

With Drone Sharpshooting V, Wardens have optimal+falloff of 75km+30km. Add couple T2 Omnidirectional Tracking Links, and it becomes 114km+30km.

Still Tornado fleet could hit slowcats out of this range.

Isn't the range of sentries restricted to ~60 km by the drone control range, assuming you don't have drone link augmentors fit?

[Malaclypse]

Isn't the range of sentries restricted to ~60 km by the drone control range, assuming you don't have drone link augmentors fit?

No. The drone control range limits as to how far away the target can be from your ship - no matter where the drones are. I.e. if you drop a set of sentries 100km away from a gate, camp at zero and engage someone jumping in roughly 15km from you, you can order your sentries to attack the target.

[Ricky]

https://forums.eveonline.com/default...s&t=87286&p=26

Here we go again, Greyscale is changing stuff again, now whether this is good or bad. that guy rly have no idea about what he wanna do whit titans. and changes hes mind all the time. time will tell what happens whit them

[Mfume]

https://forums.eveonline.com/default...s&t=87286&p=26

Here we go again, Greyscale is changing stuff again, now whether this is good or bad. that guy rly have no idea about what he wanna do whit titans. and changes hes mind all the time. time will tell what happens whit them

Taking player input into consideration is fine. Or do you think it'd be better if he charged off with his retarded ideas while ignoring everyone else?

[Matos]

Someone should make a recording of a Song "What shall we do with the blapping Titans?"

I would do it myself if it couldn't be mistaken as a crime against humanity with a voice like mine.

[Ricky]

Taking player input into consideration is fine. Or do you think it'd be better if he charged off with his retarded ideas while ignoring everyone else?

No its completely fine, just shows he had no idea what he went into when he started this,

[Gordon Cain]

for those of us at work with no access to eve-o whats the new changes about?

[Ricky]

OK, so the approach we're currently considering is:

- Probably keep the lock count reduction on general principles
- Introduce an attribute that lets us scale turret damage based on raw unmodified sig radius, and set this to approximately capital-size on XL weapons
- Stop people from refitting their ships while they're being targeted
- Possibly revert the tracking adjustment, we're still considering this
- Put "revisit tracking formula" on our to-look-at list, and particularly consider revising how sig radius and sig res are treated (either make this comparison more prominent or pull it out and use the damage scaling on all turrets, possibly with some additional adjustments TBC)
- Put "revisit supercap EW immunity" on our to-look-at list

The damage scaling guarantees that we solve the problem we're trying to solve, which is why we're currently favoring that approach. It also stops people from ratting in titans so effectively, which is considered a significant plus. Finally, it's likely laying the groundwork for a more comprehensive tracking adjustment at some possible time in the future maybe TBC perhaps you see how I'm being non-committal here right.

Stopping mid-fight refitting is a "cute" solution that may or may not end up contributing to this in practice, but it's not behavior we want to support anyway so removing it now seems reasonable.

The tracking nerf on XL weapons may or may not still be needed, we'll see how that pans out.

The tracking formula is now very much on my radar; as above I make no predictions about when we might look at it but it does warrant another look I think.

Criticisms?

that's where he is now.

[tgr]

They can stick that "refitting their ships while they're being targeted" (or as greyscale later changed it to, "no refitting while aggressed", which is even worse) up where the sun don't shine.

Not sure about damage scaling. It could be that they just can't (or won't) change the tracking mechanism sufficiently that f.ex titans will be so disincentivized to be used against subcaps, that they'll have to go down the route of damage scaling as well to get the effect they're looking for. Alternatively, they could do the above and change the titan guns into XXL guns, and decouple titan modifications from dreads.

[Politicka]

"f.ex" I keep seeing f.<something> what the hell does that mean, sorry for derail.

[ihaveahelmet]

Fedex, they bring shit to your home

(for example)

[Propagandas]

And Ill say it again. Since you seem to be missing the point. No game, any game, since games have been out has 50 broken ships or units or anything been designed to beat 500 ships or units or anything. I would understand 50 titans beating 500 frigates, sure, frigates should not kill a titan without enough damage. But in its current form, 50 titans beats 500 bs, 500 tengus, 500 ahacs. Any of those combinations are broken.

Like any child to his parents. If the child abuses the toys he is given, after a while, the parent will take those toys away from the child. In this case, ccp was/is/will be parents and the abusers of titans the children. After so many ccp fleets and countless "innocent empire frigates" dying over and over, and the abuse seeing no end, the parent "ccp" decided enough was enough and took away the toys. If for say, the child, had taken the time and spread out the abuse of said toys, maybe ccp would have been nicer and let you play with them longer. Try not to blame the poor goon newbie in his rifter, he didn't abuse his toy.

Lmao 500 bs neuts down a titan and pops it in less then 1 minute, hth fool.

[Elise Randolph]

List of alliances that have had the largest supercapital fleet in the post AOE DD era
* IT
* Atlas
* The NC
* DRF
* Team Tech

List of alliances that died/lost territory because they were overwhelmed by Titans

[Quesa]

So:

Escalation patch Apr 24th
-Iterations on incursions
-Rogue Drone changes and tweaks
-ship balancing (Maybe this)

Expansion, March(?)
-Mercenary market
-FW changes
-New modules
-Missile launcher changes (graphics update)
-Continued V3 improvements for Amarr and Minmattar ships

Cool.

[StevieTopSiders]

I haven't seen/heard any ship balancing coming for Escalation. Citation?

[Quesa]

I haven't seen/heard any ship balancing coming for Escalation. Citation?

It's mentioned as part of the first patch coming in April. Don't know what they are going to do but there you have it. "A load of ship balancing changes coming in", right after he mentioned Rogue Drone changes and tweaks. (Maybe this)

[jimmychrist]

Maybe he's talking about titan changes

[Quesa]

Maybe he's talking about titan changes

Which Titan changes? I only ask because it's been over a year since I have paid much attn. The above was a direct quote from the video, so I assumed it was more than just a single ship.

[Checkbox Poll]

Which Titan changes? I only ask because it's been over a year since I have paid much attn. The above was a direct quote from the video, so I assumed it was more than just a single ship.

A lot of people complained that officer fit turret titans could easily track and one shot things with large signature radii, such as MWD drakes, battleships, or people that aren't smart enough to keep their transversal not-zero. There is an inherent problem with XL Turret tracking that needs a bigger fix but there are a large group of people who don't have any experience with titans wanting to nerf them into the ground (aka "Enjoy your 80b ISK paperweight, nerd") because of bad experiences when PL / NCdotte / Raiden would drop groups of 30 - 50 titans that could just sort by transversal and lock up everything and shoot them with 1/2 of their guns and essentially oneshot anything.

Initially a dumb nerf was announced - set max locked targets on a titan to 3, set base scan resolution to 5 (wut), and cut tracking in half. This has been re-evaluated to just be the tracking and max targets nerf. Blapping will still occur with these nerfs but it will require even more of a paper tank on the titans.

I don't know how far back ago you quit, but they also removed the ability for titans to doomsday subcaps (lol can't DD all of the command ships anymore) and the drone bay from titans. Supercarriers got a HP nerf and are no longer allowed to carry anything but Fighters and Fighterbombers.

Basically, if you enjoyed supercapitals online in the last year, your fun amount was significantly reduced but subcaps are much more viable now. The blob is ruling again.

[Zagdul]

A lot of people complained that officer fit turret titans could easily track and one shot things with large signature radii, such as MWD drakes, battleships, or people that aren't smart enough to keep their transversal not-zero. There is an inherent problem with XL Turret tracking that needs a bigger fix but there are a large group of people who don't have any experience with titans wanting to nerf them into the ground (aka "Enjoy your 80b ISK paperweight, nerd") because of bad experiences when PL / NCdotte / Raiden would drop groups of 30 - 50 titans that could just sort by transversal and lock up everything and shoot them with 1/2 of their guns and essentially oneshot anything.

Initially a dumb nerf was announced - set max locked targets on a titan to 3, set base scan resolution to 5 (wut), and cut tracking in half. This has been re-evaluated to just be the tracking and max targets nerf. Blapping will still occur with these nerfs but it will require even more of a paper tank on the titans.

I don't know how far back ago you quit, but they also removed the ability for titans to doomsday subcaps (lol can't DD all of the command ships anymore) and the drone bay from titans. Supercarriers got a HP nerf and are no longer allowed to carry anything but Fighters and Fighterbombers.

Basically, if you enjoyed supercapitals online in the last year, your fun amount was significantly reduced but subcaps are much more viable now. The blob is ruling again.

Normally you have good posts and are correct, on this one you're not.

People who don't understand tracking mechanics are upset and crying for nerfs. People who do understand them want a specific aspect of tracking nerfed where, when the ship gets further way from an object, it becomes easier to track.

I can orbit a titan doing 2kms in a frig and be hit by it when I'm @100km <-- that is wrong. Even with a MWD on, a frig shouldn't be tracked by a titan.

So far the best solution I've heard is Yaay's where he suggests removing turrets on a titan, or at least cutting them back to 4. Then, add multiple DD's to a titan where each level of Titan grants you the ability to add an additional Doomsday module and each level of Doomsday operation lessens the time between firing the DD. Doomsday damage would need to be nerfed pretty heavily for a base 1m damage or something. However, this would allow for up to 5 DD's on a single titan, all would hit for about 1m each making them the perfect anti capital weapon. They would still have 4 turrets on them making them worth putting on the field for structure shots and potentially give them the ability to 'siege'.

You further need to add in the mechanic on how missiles work where explosion velocity is adjusted by signature radius to other turret based weapons. This way less damage is done by turret weapons to smaller sig ships. Instead of tracking being the only damage modification on turret damage. Right now, if a ship with a smaller signature radius sits still, a missile boat does less damage to it. This isn't the case for turrets.

These two changes would in effect fix Titans from being anti sub cap and also add a balancing calculation to turrets so that hybrids could finally be fixed. You'd be able to make it so that blasters have a niche to where they do better damage against smaller sig targets at close range where AC's have the optimal range niche.

[Checkbox Poll]

I can orbit a titan doing 2kms in a frig and be hit by it when I'm @100km <-- that is wrong. Even with a MWD on, a frig shouldn't be tracked by a titan.

This isn't wrong, according to the formula, you just don't like it. A frig should be able to be hit if the pilot isn't skilled enough to be aware of their transversal relative to the thing that is most likely to fuck their shit up. At 100km you would really have to fight to keep your transversal high. The way to avoid getting hit is to approach in a S-pattern and orbit closer to the titan, getting under it's guns. A proper way of implementing this would be to add more emphasis on signature resolution within the XL turret tracking formula.

[John Caffeine]

Normally you have good posts and are correct, on this one you're not.

People who don't understand tracking mechanics are upset and crying for nerfs. People who do understand them want a specific aspect of tracking nerfed where, when the ship gets further way from an object, it becomes easier to track.

I can orbit a titan doing 2kms in a frig and be hit by it when I'm @100km <-- that is wrong. Even with a MWD on, a frig shouldn't be tracked by a titan.

Under these circumstances a titan would have 0% chance of hitting you, so I'm pretty sure it's complete bullshit. I for one like the tracking formula as it is, making it so range doesn't make things easier to track would be pretty fucking dumb. Just make sure you actually press "orbit" instead of "keep at range".

So far the best solution I've heard is Yaay's where he suggests removing turrets on a titan, or at least cutting them back to 4. Then, add multiple DD's to a titan where each level of Titan grants you the ability to add an additional Doomsday module and each level of Doomsday operation lessens the time between firing the DD. Doomsday damage would need to be nerfed pretty heavily for a base 1m damage or something. However, this would allow for up to 5 DD's on a single titan, all would hit for about 1m each making them the perfect anti capital weapon. They would still have 4 turrets on them making them worth putting on the field for structure shots and potentially give them the ability to 'siege'.

I don't even respond to this, appart from .

[Grath]

Normally you have good posts and are correct, on this one you're not.

People who don't understand tracking mechanics are upset and crying for nerfs. People who do understand them want a specific aspect of tracking nerfed where, when the ship gets further way from an object, it becomes easier to track.

See here you had it, then here...

I can orbit a titan doing 2kms in a frig and be hit by it when I'm @100km <-- that is wrong. Even with a MWD on, a frig shouldn't be tracked by a titan.

You completely contradict it by giving evidence you yourself don't understand the tracking formula

So far the best solution I've heard is Yaay's where he suggests removing turrets on a titan, or at least cutting them back to 4. Then, add multiple DD's to a titan where each level of Titan grants you the ability to add an additional Doomsday module and each level of Doomsday operation lessens the time between firing the DD. Doomsday damage would need to be nerfed pretty heavily for a base 1m damage or something. However, this would allow for up to 5 DD's on a single titan, all would hit for about 1m each making them the perfect anti capital weapon. They would still have 4 turrets on them making them worth putting on the field for structure shots and potentially give them the ability to 'siege'.

At this point we realize that discussion with you is moot since you're one off those faggots that doesn't want the big nasty mean ship to be able to shoot you back, only that you, in your pittance of a ship should be able to find tackle and kill the titan while its largely incapable of defending itself from the heathen masses. You absolutely object to titans hitting sub caps, its in your every fucking post, but you ARE opposed to the same being inflicted in return on the sub caps.

You further need to add in the mechanic on how missiles work where explosion velocity is adjusted by signature radius to other turret based weapons. This way less damage is done by turret weapons to smaller sig ships. Instead of tracking being the only damage modification on turret damage. Right now, if a ship with a smaller signature radius sits still, a missile boat does less damage to it. This isn't the case for turrets.

I'm sorry, but sitting still, mwd on or off you're still getting clobbered by missiles, sig will only soak so much damage before you're still getting raped. You also forget to take into account how bad people in EVE are and how many warp in, shield extended ships with a sig the size of a sun, and idle, totally still with their mwd on, and there are a LOT of people that do it.

These two changes would in effect fix Titans from being anti sub cap and also add a balancing calculation to turrets so that hybrids could finally be fixed. You'd be able to make it so that blasters have a niche to where they do better damage against smaller sig targets at close range where AC's have the optimal range niche.

Its a stupid idea but ok, remove them completely from the battlefield, stop half assing it, its what you want anyway, you've literally been crying about it for a year.


Your entire post smacks of somebody who doesn't quite 'get' game mechanics and wants them altered strictly for self serving reasons because you're completely biased. The rest of us somehow manage to keep some semblance of stability in our arguments, are they overpower? Yes? Ok pull them completely off the shelf, you, all you do is baaaaaaw in post after post about how to remove titans as a sub cap threat.

Never once did you think about how to remove the sub cap threat from the titan, and we get into shitty arguments where the only thing that beats a fleet of sub caps is a bigger fleet of sub caps and isn't that the argument with titans and please for the love of christ can you leave the loveable delicate newbies the fuck out of the argument, the way you people make it out theres a 1000 new players every fucking year.

[Quesa]

I'm not a master mathematician or have complete understanding of all Turret mechanics but I was in favor of:

1) Removing turrets/missiles from Titans in trade for multiple DD modules which could them be balanced as a special case.
2) Additionally reduce damage by way of signature radii of the targets similar to missiles.

Both of these seem like good ideas and I like the looks on the surface of #2 for overall balance. I really like things that help distinguish between hull classes which gives the availability for the different tiers of weapon platforms an ability to shine vs the hull sizes they were designed for instead of just fitting requirements.

[Grath]

https://forums.eveonline.com/default...75#post1138975

What we're looking at right now as a complete package is:
- Sig res nerf to ~2000 (mathematically identical to the tracking nerf, but more intuitive)
- Max locked targets to 3
- Scaled damage reduction below ~2000-~2500 target sig radius, using the modified rather than unmodified sig. Not 100% sure if we're going to end up on linear or area-based scaling just yet.

To which several goons start baawwwing that titans will still hit MWDing Maelstroms.

The response is:

Battleships and sig radius: our current thinking is that all those sig radius penalties are there for sound balance reasons, and the only thing they really open up a vulnerability to right now is cap ships. Ignoring them for the purposes of cap ship guns just makes passive shield tanking even more desirable than it is right now. If you're finding that your 2000m drake or 4000m maelstrom are still taking huge amounts of damage from capitals, and that this is causing you problems, that's an issue with your choice of fitting rather than with overall game balance.

To which the goons go

BUT MY MWD YO IF I TURN IT ON I DIE

Sure, but the MWD is on, and again, that's supposed to be a balancing factor. You go very fast but you gain a huge sig radius while doing it. I understand that bubbles make speed a priority in big fights, but I'm not sure that we want to give MWDs a carte blanche here

To which I have posed this question:

So am I understanding right that this is an overall formula change and not just a bandage applied to titans, in other words, are BS now going to do significantly less damage to frigates and sig tanking ships with their guns?

Currently 1400 or 1200 artillery ships are fairly powerful in the amount of alpha they bring to bear on any target they should choose, can we expect BS guns to now suffer the same that XL guns will?

Will a very low sig cruiser have its damage mitigated in the same fractal fashion because the new formula is being applied universally to all guns?

[StevieTopSiders]

Good find, Grath! If this is universal, does this mean AHAC's are back?

[John Caffeine]

Would be pretty sweet if the titan nerf ends up nerfing alpha Maelstroms' ability to hit aHACs.

[Grogoth]

Assault Frigate Swarm is GO!

[Grath]

Welp, according to Raivi its only going to be applied to XL guns, which is dumb as shit but whatevs really.

[John Caffeine]

So they're fucking over dreads too? Or is it only XL guns on titans?

[Grath]

So they're fucking over dreads too? Or is it only XL guns on titans?

XL guns, it doesn't really fuck over dreads, unless everybody starts flying Halo'd Strong X Instinct Triage carriers.

Which they'll have trouble hitting.

Somebody in the thread has specifically pointed out that titans and dreads will have a very hard time with those, but Greyscale, in his infinite wisdom, says that its not a problem now so they don't want to take it into consideration.

Cause that's never failed them before.

[John Caffeine]

XL guns, it doesn't really fuck over dreads, unless everybody starts flying Halo'd Strong X Instinct Triage carriers.

Which they'll have trouble hitting.

Somebody in the thread has specifically pointed out that titans and dreads will have a very hard time with those, but Greyscale, in his infinite wisdom, says that its not a problem now so they don't want to take it into consideration.

Cause that's never failed them before.

In lowsec and WHs, where dreads are actually used on a regular basis instead of just for shooting POSes, they're used as much to shoot heavily webbed subcaps as they are used to kill carriers. And this does sound like it rather fuck them over big time.

I very much look forward to speed/sig tanking titans and dreads with an afterburning 800m sig pantheon Archon though, gonna be pretty baller.


Edit; I also love the halo'd x-instinct triage idea.

[ihaveahelmet]

I very much look forward to speed/sig tanking titans and dreads with an afterburning 800m sig pantheon Archon though, gonna be pretty baller.

Nidhoggur's time in the spotlight tbh.

[Quesa]

Welp, according to Raivi its only going to be applied to XL guns, which is dumb as shit but whatevs really.

Completely agree, you don't want to start making *special rules* for ships in this game.

[Mfume]

like ewar immunity?

[Helios Black]

like ewar immunity?

That's not exactly the same thing... ewar immunity is part of the ship's intended design and is in the ship description. This nerf to XL guns only while leaving the tracking formula fucked up for other guns isn't a desired trait and isn't in any weapon descriptions as the intended design.

[Ricky]

Despite all the effort put into this.

what bothers me is the fact sitting completely still don't make you take full damage if your sig is just low enough. sitting still being retarded should be penalized

Edit: yeah and if they go whit those changes, it needs to be on all size guns. whats the sense in Large guns can hit for full damage on frigs not moving but XL cant,

[n0th]

XL guns, it doesn't really fuck over dreads,

At the very least this change shits all over wormhole farm.
edit: as much i i'd like to call Greyscale a dumb fuck i unfortunately can not:

The real solution here though is improvements to the tracking formula, and we're reluctant right now to go overboard with this stuff in the meantime, plus it's getting late in the day and we need to lock down something workable ASAP so we can ship it next week.

[Mfume]

That's not exactly the same thing... ewar immunity is part of the ship's intended design and is in the ship description. This nerf to XL guns only while leaving the tracking formula fucked up for other guns isn't a desired trait and isn't in any weapon descriptions as the intended design.

The tracking formula isn't "fucked up" for other turrets. 1400s are only raping AHACs/Tengus when backed by webs.

[Matos]

At the very least this change shits all over wormhole farm.

Really depends on the extend of the Damage reduction. It should fuck over single rapier + bunch of caps escalation runs though

[Mfume]

https://forums.eveonline.com/default...33#post1145533

CCP Greyscale:

Oh, the other thing I meant to say: the titans-only thing seems to be working and should be on SiSi tomorrow. Today's build has the damage restriction applied to all XL guns, so titans will be the same tomorrow as today, but dreadnaughts will be different.

[jimmychrist]

Somebody in the thread has specifically pointed out that titans and dreads will have a very hard time with those, but Greyscale, in his infinite wisdom, says that its not a problem now so they don't want to take it into consideration.

Cause that's never failed them before.

Titans are not cost effective, no alliance will ever invest in building more than one or two

[Grath]

?riginally Posted by CCP Greyscale
What I'm going to try and sort out today is to have this attribute applied to XL guns *only* when fitted to titans‚ so dreadnaughts are left alone for now. We might ?ome back to PvE dreadnaughts as a balance concern at a later date, but for the t?me being ?nd if thi? works properly‚ this ?hange w?ll be limited to just tit?n? for now, and only for as long as it takes to fix the tracking formula properly.

Oh and

The tracking formula isn't "fucked up" for other turrets. 1400s are only raping AHACs/Tengus when backed by webs.

If the tracking formula isn't fucked up then you're saying titan tracking is fine?

If not, then you don't change the tracking formula for one ship, you change the tracking formula.


Maels can hit unwebbed frigates, maels can hit unwebbed cruisers, maels can hit destroyers and dictors, unwebbed. But do feel free to tell yourself whatever stupid lies you want Mfume, its never stopped you before.

[Matos]

So did anyone test yet how the Damage scales with sig?

[Helios Black]

The tracking formula isn't "fucked up" for other turrets. 1400s are only raping AHACs/Tengus when backed by webs.

I've seen frigates unwebbed and moving (with transversal) hit by 1400's. Webs just make it ridiculously easy. Still doesn't matter that your example of ewar immunity was completely different from the reason for the discussion here though.

[poaw]

That's not exactly the same thing... ewar immunity is part of the ship's intended design and is in the ship description. This nerf to XL guns only while leaving the tracking formula fucked up for other guns isn't a desired trait and isn't in any weapon descriptions as the intended design.

I'm pretty sure if Greyscale is telling people it's being added on Sisi then it part of the intended now laffo.

I've seen frigates unwebbed and moving (with transversal) hit by 1400's.

Your experiences with 1400s and frigates moving with traversal allow you to become a member of a very exclusive club. You'll be joining the likes of dbrb and opti in telling the rest of EVE about the evil lies of math and EFT, and the turret Messiah that can hit frigates.

[Mfume]

Maels can hit unwebbed frigates, maels can hit unwebbed cruisers, maels can hit destroyers and dictors, unwebbed. But do feel free to tell yourself whatever stupid lies you want Mfume, its never stopped you before.

be too cowardly to bridge tengus into 80 maelstroms about it.

edit: oops SDF, gotta add content!

I've seen frigates unwebbed and moving (with transversal) hit by 1400's. Webs just make it ridiculously easy. Still doesn't matter that your example of ewar immunity was completely different from the reason for the discussion here though.

I've literally sat on 6NJ stn for hours with a half dozen eath Tornadoes furiously firing 1400s at me in a MWDing Slicer and not taken a scratch. The only time I've ever been hit with 1400s in a frig is when I undocked with Tornados or Machs sitting right at the 0 transversal dunk spot.

You've fought Tornados in Muninns and seen just how horrible the tracking is, I was there too, so don't try to pass this bullshit "they can hit unwebbed frigs!" off on me.

If the tracking formula isn't fucked up then you're saying titan tracking is fine?

The idea of a tracking titan is fine, the actual implementation could do fine-tuning (Pink Princess in a full tank, 2 or 3 TC Avatar blapping Tempests was a bit overboard, the NCdot half-tracking titans chewing through Geddons was kinda out there as well).

The tracking formula itself is working as intended and, in doing so, is placing a premium on sig-tanked setups when fighting under tracking titans. This is interesting tactically because it gives HACs, Tengus, etc. a niche rather than simply one side lining up in Abaddons and the other in Maelstroms every day for weeks straight.

If not, then you don't change the tracking formula for one ship, you change the tracking formula.

Except it's one ship that's generating most of the tears and CCP has already explicitly said it's far overboard for that one ship. They still apparently like the idea behind tracking titans since they didn't simply take away all their turrets and tell people owning titans to get fucked, so I'm guessing they want to see some degree of blap going on, just not on full/partial tank setups like we've been seeing.

[Helios Black]

Lol, called Poaw for backup I see.

[Mfume]

Got it backwards, poaw said "my favorite person" posted something "really dumb about turret tracking."

I assumed it was dbrb, left disappointed.

[penifSMASH]

Mfume showing himself to be as dumb as a nigger again

should really teach critical thinking skills in da 'hood