[DevBlog] Incursions tweak and Nerfs to Cobalt Edge

**Malcanis** · 2012-04-12

Originally Posted by Jm24

npc regions for everybody

**GreenDaemon** · 2012-04-12

^^ this. The lack of NPC regions & accessible jump points are probably the reasons why I dislike the east compared to the west / north so much

**Gyncognito** · 2012-04-12

Why add to inflation by adding in drone bounties? The removal of drone loots is already sending the market into full retarded mode.

CCP claims to understand that isk faucets are causing them grief in the economy. Why double down by adding bounties to drones? Now they say they have to nerf bounties across the board to balance it all out. Who's sailing this ship, Corky?

This was a perfect opportunity to attempt a new system. A test pilot for the big fix to remove the major isk faucet from the game. Instead they just dig a deeper hole in a half ass 'just nerf titan tracking' sorta way. There has to be a way to give 0.0 dwellers a significant reward without literally printing isk.

**pinoyzzz** · 2012-04-12

Minerals are an ISK faucet too (via insurance)

**Manfred Hideous** · 2012-04-12

Originally Posted by Gyncognito

Why add to inflation by adding in drone bounties? The removal of drone loots is already sending the market into full retarded mode.

CCP claims to understand that isk faucets are causing them grief in the economy. Why double down by adding bounties to drones? Now they say they have to nerf bounties across the board to balance it all out. Who's sailing this ship, Corky?

This was a perfect opportunity to attempt a new system. A test pilot for the big fix to remove the major isk faucet from the game. Instead they just dig a deeper hole in a half ass 'just nerf titan tracking' sorta way. There has to be a way to give 0.0 dwellers a significant reward without literally printing isk.

tbh, the new bounties will make the space popular with people who dont want the hassle of moving mins to make their money. I imagine there will be wars over that space now. ISK sink through losses and more content potential.

**Agathor** · 2012-04-12

Originally Posted by pinoyzzz

Minerals are an ISK faucet too (via insurance)

Thats very true indeed Mr.Pinoyzzz.

**Farham** · 2012-04-12

Boy, Xdeath sure looks rather brilliant picking when he did to just up and empty the vault then leave the drone regions.

**Elo** · 2012-04-12

farham come back

**Farham** · 2012-04-12

Originally Posted by Elo

farham come back

Maybe someday...for now young hipster, you will have to lead the revolution.

**Elo** · 2012-04-12

please

**Elo** · 2012-04-12

YOU CAN JOIN MY CORP

**hellkyte** · 2012-04-12

After the insurance changes from a year ago or so (the one where it uses market data), I can't imagine anyone would use insurance as a way to convert minerals to ISK these days. It's simply too easy to just compress them and move them to highsec to sell. The price difference (especially now) between hull amd insurance just seems way too big for anyone to do that.

**tgr** · 2012-04-12

Originally Posted by Gyncognito

Why add to inflation by adding in drone bounties? The removal of drone loots is already sending the market into full retarded mode.

CCP claims to understand that isk faucets are causing them grief in the economy. Why double down by adding bounties to drones? Now they say they have to nerf bounties across the board to balance it all out. Who's sailing this ship, Corky?

This was a perfect opportunity to attempt a new system. A test pilot for the big fix to remove the major isk faucet from the game. Instead they just dig a deeper hole in a half ass 'just nerf titan tracking' sorta way. There has to be a way to give 0.0 dwellers a significant reward without literally printing isk.

They're adding drone bounties, and they're reducing bounty payouts in general by 10%, and incursions are getting a nerf as well. vOv

**hellkyte** · 2012-04-12

I remember hearing somewhere (can't remember where :mystery

that Covetors will have their skill reqs reduced to lvl 4 for mining barges. This may end up making a huge difference in high sec mining as it damn near halves the required training time and may encourage more players to take up mining on alt accounts. To be honest I would probably train my station trader to do it since I could do it while managing orders.

**Grath** · 2012-04-12

Also if you notice the top bounty for the biggest drone is only 1.5 mil, and theres only 2 drones worth over 1 million each. Most are 900k or under. Peregrin Falls gets removed as king shit region and is relegated to 2nd best drone region with a high concentration of .5 and .6 systems, both capable of supporting 3 ratting supers (2 titans and a supercarrier/bs combo). The Spire moves up in place to have the most high true sec in the drone regions.

Theres also a chance they iterate on it and add a small NPC pocket and proper officers for them with their sudden love for new mods and shit.

Also somebody told me theres no mexallon in the DR, which is pretty funny, but overall I think this makes the DR slightly more desirable, because the

of living there just went way down.

**fluidvoid** · 2012-04-12

There are also regular asteroids in your former overlords home area you know

**Grath** · 2012-04-13

Originally Posted by fluidvoid

There are also regular asteroids in your former overlords home area you know

Yea idk, thats why i put the 'somebody told me' bit, im not sure what they mean, maybe none of the belt roids are the mex type, im fucking clueless, for once, maybe you know more than me.

**Mfume** · 2012-04-13

i was a miner for a few weeks, had a sick mining maelstrom.

**Quesa** · 2012-04-13

Miner-Rokh pilots unite.

**July** · 2012-04-13

Originally Posted by Mfume

i was a miner for a few weeks, had a sick mining maelstrom.

I never understood why people mine in a battleship when they could be running missions with them instead.

**Della Monk** · 2012-04-13

Because they've already been skilling for mining and gotten used to it as a source of income at that point? It's not like people say 'oh man all my missioning isk can finally get me a battleship, time to mine!', they lack pretty much any of the skills for the guns and shit.

**Marivauder** · 2012-04-13

Originally Posted by July

I never understood why people mine in a battleship when they could be running missions with them instead.

It's the next big thing

**Malaclypse** · 2012-04-13

Originally Posted by Marivauder

It's the next big thing

It's actually as retro as can be. Apoc-mining used to be profitable... once... a very long time ago.

**Axexut** · 2012-04-13

Our pilots are used to being dumped on by CCP.

The region has zero tech moons. The SC nerfs kept most of our SCs from belt-ratting (THANK GOD!). Now this. More to deal with. But still nothing insurmountable.

Regardless, IRC (as the exclusive dweller in CE) will move on.

Oldma has run Alliances in other bounty spaces that were not "prime" and done well for our pilots. This is nothing new for us. And though our pilots aren't thrilled with these prospective changes . . . . It’s just another day in the CCP salt-mine.

Our guys seem to be surviving. We will continue to put up fleets. RZR / CFC (increasingly separate entities) seem to like coming into our spaces daily and our pilots legitimately seem to like fighting them (good practice for them and our FCs). Without us, RZR / CFC would have to jump 20-30 jumps for their first red and vice-versa.

These impacts aren’t material enough to change our culture.

TL/DR: We’re going to adjust just like everyone else.

**Malaclypse** · 2012-04-13

Originally Posted by Axexut

Our pilots are used to being dumped on by CCP.

The region has zero tech moons. The SC nerfs kept most of our SCs from belt-ratting (THANK GOD!). Now this. More to deal with. But still nothing insurmountable.

Regardless, IRC (as the exclusive dweller in CE) will move on.

Oldma has run Alliances in other bounty spaces that were not "prime" and done well for our pilots. This is nothing new for us. And though our pilots aren't thrilled with these prospective changes . . . . It’s just another day in the CCP salt-mine.

Our guys seem to be surviving. We will continue to put up fleets. RZR / CFC (increasingly separate entities) seem to like coming into our spaces daily and our pilots legitimately seem to like fighting them (good practice for them and our FCs). Without us, RZR / CFC would have to jump 20-30 jumps for their first red and vice-versa.

These impacts aren’t material enough to change our culture.

TL/DR: We’re going to adjust just like everyone else.

Will we be seeing all IRC membercorps except for AWECO being forced to set their taxes to 100% so that your little pyramid scam won't crash?
That you already demand loot even from OOAlliance alts to be handed over is nothing new, so good for you that you're prepared for that already.

**Axexut** · 2012-04-13

Thank you for bringing this up Malaclypse! Sincerely.

Maybe we're doing it wrong, but we still are offering our pilots replacement ships at below Jita prices. No. Not quite a SRP. But then again, we don't have renters or a number of high-end moons to float our bills and make us rich.

I can tell you I personally have to go to shattered crystal and buy GTCs that I convert to Isk in Jita to replenish my ships and mods. And I'm HC and the head of the military. And other HCs are routinely out there ratting / mining to make their Iskies. Don't take my word: Ask any of the cloaky CFC guys who see them out there every day.

Not sure where that rumor started about us making tons.

Hell, at times I wish it were true.

**Letters** · 2012-04-13

Originally Posted by Axexut

Thank you for bringing this up Malaclypse! Sincerely.

Maybe we're doing it wrong, but we still are offering our pilots replacement ships at below Jita prices. No. Not quite a SRP. But then again, we don't have renters or a number of high-end moons to float our bills and make us rich.

I can tell you I personally have to go to shattered crystal and buy GTCs that I convert to Isk in Jita to replenish my ships and mods. And I'm HC and the head of the military. And other HCs are routinely out there ratting / mining to make their Iskies. Don't take my word: Ask any of the cloaky CFC guys who see them out there every day.

Not sure where that rumor started about us making tons.

Hell, at times I wish it were true.

So is IRC going to force their members to buy GTC's so they can buy new ships to lose in vain trying to save the leaderships baby supers?

(FYI: I doubt anyone believes that shit with you buying GTC's for that)

**Axexut** · 2012-04-13

Letters - you obviously have zero spies on our comms or you would know better. (one of the few)

But thank you for playing, and here's the Travel Edition of Eve so you can remember your time with us!

**Letters** · 2012-04-13

Originally Posted by Axexut

Letters - you obviously have zero spies on our comms or you would know better. (one of the few)

But thank you for playing, and here's the Travel Edition of Eve so you can remember your time with us!

Secretely hoping that you are a troll (otherwise retarded).

**Quesa** · 2012-04-13

The person who says they don't have spies on their coms...
[spoiler="my first spoiler!"]is probably the spy.[/spoiler]

**Fatyn** · 2012-04-13

Despite the fact that a few industrialists seem to be getting fat playing the IRC system, it's fun space to fly in and everyone knows it. They bring gangs, and smack talk (perhaps due to low self esteem) is within acceptable boundaries. Maybe it's *because* the average grunt is poor as fuck, needs to rat to replace their last ship, and generally scratching out their meagre existence on the edge of the universe that they actually try to defend their space from roamers. This is how EVE should be folks!!

**Matos** · 2012-04-13

Originally Posted by Manfred Hideous

tbh, the new bounties will make the space popular with people who dont want the hassle of moving mins to make their money. I imagine there will be wars over that space now. ISK sink through losses and more content potential.

Destroyed ships are an isk faucet ...

**Quesa** · 2012-04-13

Originally Posted by Matos

Destroyed ships are an isk faucet ...

Only if you can produce or acquire the ship for less than the purchase price and insurance cost. I thought mineral prices were pretty much floored at that level making the actual gain negligible. Compounds just replace the traditional ratting faucet so the change is just a shift in faucets.

...wait, what?

**Aeon221** · 2012-04-13

Originally Posted by Quesa

Only if you can produce or acquire the ship for less than the purchase price and insurance cost. I thought mineral prices were pretty much floored at that level making the actual gain negligible. Compounds just replace the traditional ratting faucet so the change is just a shift in faucets.

...wait, what?

Purchase price goes to another player.

So long as the money destroyed on NPC elements (factory slots, insurance cost, market fees, etc) is less than the money created by insurance payouts, more money ends up created than destroyed. And while this is mechanically different from the real world central bank model in that the monetary authority is basically everyone, the end result is roughly similar. It's the lack of a financial system that fucks everything.

Anyway, so long as income keeps pace with the rising price level -- we're gonna gloss over the details -- it's not a big deal. 2-3% inflation is perfectly normal (necessary even) for an economy growing at 3-4%. I don't know the stats on the EVE economy because the person doing it has clearly never worked in a stats bureau, or I'd be having loads of fun arguing about that sort of stuff.

**Grim** · 2012-04-13

Can someone put the time in to make a seperate thread listing all the isk sinks/faucets, so that we can link them whenever we get on this topic? Would save a lot of posting.

**Kazanir** · 2012-04-13

Originally Posted by Grath

Yea idk, thats why i put the 'somebody told me' bit, im not sure what they mean, maybe none of the belt roids are the mex type, im fucking clueless, for once, maybe you know more than me.

Yeah it has gotta be that or something, but you can't get mex/iso from the nullsec ABC ores anyway so vOv

The DR change will make nullsec mining profitable but it won't change the dynamic of nullsec having to import nearly everything, sadly

**Muhadin** · 2012-04-13

Oh look, more isk faucets for botters to take advantage of.

**tgr** · 2012-04-13

Unless they made trit/pyerite mining something which the alliance can do in an upgraded system, to make the act of making ships locally won't be as eyestabbingly awful and provides the alliances with either an added income source or a way to provide the shitties minerals for usage in ship replacement programs etc.

**Della Monk** · 2012-04-13

Originally Posted by Aeon221

Purchase price goes to another player.

So long as the money destroyed on NPC elements (factory slots, insurance cost, market fees, etc) is less than the money created by insurance payouts, more money ends up created than destroyed. And while this is mechanically different from the real world central bank model in that the monetary authority is basically everyone, the end result is roughly similar. It's the lack of a financial system that fucks everything.

Anyway, so long as income keeps pace with the rising price level -- we're gonna gloss over the details -- it's not a big deal. 2-3% inflation is perfectly normal (necessary even) for an economy growing at 3-4%. I don't know the stats on the EVE economy because the person doing it has clearly never worked in a stats bureau, or I'd be having loads of fun arguing about that sort of stuff.

Am I reading this wrong or are you ignoring the opportunity costs of the minerals used in production, which are destroyed?

**Viribus** · 2012-04-13

Originally Posted by Della Monk

Am I reading this wrong or are you ignoring the opportunity costs of the minerals used in production, which are destroyed?

1. That's not an opportunity cost
2. The cost of the minerals is paid to another player, keeping the money in circulation

**Grim** · 2012-04-13

Originally Posted by Della Monk

Am I reading this wrong or are you ignoring the opportunity costs of the minerals used in production, which are destroyed?

We arent talking about self destructing to insurance scam. you will "lose" money when your ship goes boom, but isk also enters the world in the form of insurance, technically making it a faucet.

**Fix Lag** · 2012-04-13

Somebody with time, patience, and an exceeding tolerance for retards needs to make an Eveonomics thread.

**tgr** · 2012-04-13

You just volunteered.

**Della Monk** · 2012-04-13

Originally Posted by Grim

We arent talking about self destructing to insurance scam. you will "lose" money when your ship goes boom, but isk also enters the world in the form of insurance, technically making it a faucet.

Ah, ok. So basically how insurance transforms minerals via ships directly into isk. Yeah that makes sense.

**Fix Lag** · 2012-04-13

Originally Posted by tgr

You just volunteered.

Okay, I'll write something up this weekend. It'll be technical and probably riddled with errors, but whatever.

**Grath** · 2012-04-13

Originally Posted by Axexut

we don't have renters or a number of high-end moons

Perhaps you should moons scan again?

Its my understanding that at least 1 Tech moon has been found by SOLAR, which was completely untowered by XIX. Yea, I don't get how you could live somewhere for 4 years and now probe every moon but evidently thats exactly what happened. Mabye you do have a tech moon and just haven't bothered to look.

**Grim** · 2012-04-13

Originally Posted by Fix Lag

Okay, I'll write something up this weekend. It'll be technical and probably riddled with errors, but whatever.

If you take a good hack at it I'm sure we can find someone willing to find fault with it. Once its decent we can sticky it for reference whenever people get on the topic.

**Checkbox Poll** · 2012-04-13

Originally Posted by Grath

Perhaps you should moons scan again?

Its my understanding that at least 1 Tech moon has been found by SOLAR, which was completely untowered by XIX. Yea, I don't get how you could live somewhere for 4 years and now probe every moon but evidently thats exactly what happened. Mabye you do have a tech moon and just haven't bothered to look.

We found a tech moon in Fountain this way.