Dirty blobbers: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12544949Originally Posted by Grath
Dirty blobbers: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12544949
If you pay more isk for a ship it should perform better than a ship that costs less isk. It should be able to kill things, but if you are going to use it you should be scared of losing it. At this point that isn't the case because there is no good counter to a pack of titans. Titans just need a better counter. Buff dreads. The reward vs risk of using them isnt there yet to justify using them repeatedly against titans.
And here I thought we did use ours from time to time, and we were even "hypocrites" for using ours against subcaps once?
I don't know, at which point does an alliance have too many battleships?
I mean, is this a real question? Its a game, over time every player has the potential to end up with one. Should we ask for some arbitrary limit on how many titans an alliance can have for some reason?
Why not just go down the same road and limit the number of people in an alliance? Because its dumb, the people will just break up into smaller groups and set standings.
If you think an alliance limit on titans would be any different then I'm not sure how much of a conversation we can have here.
Literally, there should be no more of a limit on how many titans can be in one place as there is on any other ship type. If you can get those people to stay, and commit those assets to hte field, so be it.
If the CFC were to field 1000 dreads, so be it.
Its called proliferation and theres nothing you're ever going to do to stop it.
WTB DOCKABLE SUPER DREADS
However, there is nothing wrong with dreads. Maybe start using some and dry those tears.
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I mean really, you guys have been running alpha fleet for nearly 2 years now.
There is no plausible reason all those Mael pilots can't fly dreads other than their own leadership didn't put any effort into guiding those people into them, and it is the exact defense/offense you're missing, only now instead of fixing or adjusting the mistake you made in planning, you're all whining that titans are too OP, ignoring the fact that the counter to them could easily be mass produced at a pittance in house because you just bought all the parts for those titan BPO's you picked up.
Except redesign the sov system so you don't have to shoehorn 1000+ into every god damn system you try to contest because if you don't, you'll lose all progress.
you are really trying too fucking hard.
Yo lemme just ignore everything you said and ask a loaded question over and over again heeheeeheee im so good at this
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When I first read this I started to laugh, then I did the arithmetic in my head and based off the screenie you listed it's something like 1mil isk per point of dps. Meanwhile, probably around 30 some odd drakes would have the same dps output, and still be cheaper by a long shot, but admittedly have about 1/4 the hp vOv
Edit: So yeah, for the dang cost I would agree, that is pretty thin tank.
I've been behind you on this for a long time, if only because it makes the game better, but lets be honest here.
We've both heard DBRB in fleet, and we both know that no matter how much he has to split it, he'll always try to drum up another 200 dudes to cram into a place, even if he's got 3 other fleets up already and jammed full, its human nature and nobody faults him for it (its actually one of his best talents).
I'm not really sure how viable setting up multiple sov objectives would be at splitting the blob up, because its human nature to huddle together during a conflict.
I think our main issue is that we don't have subcap (not hubcap fuck you autocorrect) supremacy while there are titans on the field. At least one reason behind the change to drake fleet doctrine was that titans were blapping our maelstroms every time we took them out. Drakes are gay and can kill stuff I guess but they cost fuck all to replace which is the only good thing about them.
Even as part of "the blob"(more like "one of the blobs", but vOv) I can't argue with this. Maels were fun for a while, Drakes have never been fun, fuck that. The fact that TEST is now running AHAC gangs is awesome, for one lasers are pretty and secondly it isn't the done to death Mael blob nor the always boring as fuck Drake blob so I'm actually having fun flying them.
I'm spacepoor as shit despite having played for quite some time, but if the CFC actually started using Dreads, or at least gave it a try, I'd be glad to hop into one. Fucking Atlas had a pretty impressive dread fleet when they invaded Geminate for crying out loud. Even if we lost it all it'd be hilarious to drop 250 dreads on a titan blob, if nothing else to see just what would happen.
What does a suicide dread cost after insurance anyway? 500 mil? Serious question since I literally have no idea.
Oh and I like Tgr's idea as well, but while we're waiting for that...
TEST had a drive to get duders into carriers and dreads a while ago, not sure how that worked out
Yeah Monty touched on that, something about our journey around the eveverse being to encourage people to get carriers to freight their stuff around. I still think we went all over the place because we're collectively retarded but if it got some people into carriers and on to dreads that works too. Still I rather doubt TEST would deploy a dread fleet against Raiden&Friends on our own, I doubt we'd get nearly enough dreads that we wouldn't just be DD fodder, at least for some time.
hurf blurf titans are gonna get raped lets all start talking about how things can be better
lmao
Push your guys to each own a personal carrier, and build corp/alliance based dreadfleets to hand out when you need them.
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Here's a better version m8: http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?brid=4878
It was a nice little brawl
I'm pretty sure that 90% of a time supercaps(titans) are involved in a sub-cap fight, thats because the guys using supercaps are outnumbered sub-cap wise.
http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?brid=4773
Blue Team (701)
vs
Red Team (1322)
Hurf blurf your alliance got a pig pole shoved up its ass so you're going to spend the next year + bitter posting about it.
http://kb.raidenalliance.net/?a=kill...d&kll_id=59719
Also, nerf Abaddons!
and sometimes the other side is just bad
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12545055
vOv lets face it the elite god SP pvpers of Raiden. can own goon newbies in drakes any day.
Actually those titans are the ones blobbing glad I could help
If EVE was fair the side with the most guys would always steamroll, any mechanic or ship that allows this sacred principle to be violated needs to be corrected.
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m8 im not saying anything, but some guys depend on nerfs/boosts too much, what you wanna nerf next? triage carriers?vOv lets face it the elite god SP pvpers of Raiden. can own goon newbies in drakes any day.
Nerf cynos.
Pretty much the easiest way to make blobs smaller would be for CCP to rollback the last 4 years in progress on the lag front. Also won't hurt to shed some subscriptions heh
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As a newbro in an alliance of newbros telling me that dreads are the new BS, titans are the new dread is pretty fucking depressing.
There's nothing worse than having a good idea for a post not being good enough to pull it off :negative:
That's been the EVE cycle. Before that frigs were cruisers and cruisers were the BS. 8 years later and here we are. If you care to do some digging back in the day the first battleships were a big fucking deal.As a newbro in an alliance of newbros telling me that dreads are the new BS, titans are the new dread is pretty fucking depressing.
Serioustalk: CCP should improve titan counters. Bad alliance leaders should start capital programs
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Why, can you t2 fit a maelstrom?As a newbro in an alliance of newbros telling me that dreads are the new BS, titans are the new dread is pretty fucking depressing.
Because test has also been running maels for nearly 2 years, so if you can t2 fit your mael, you're remarkably close to sitting in a dread.
Besides needing to train up torps and jump skills (for the nag, that is), accuracy is in this post.
I have over a year of training before I can fly a TEST dread (required skills and all that) mostly I don't really want to fly a capital. I'm happy with subcaps and not terribly interested in anything that needs a goddamn cyno moved around. When half our coalition is dudes roughly my 'age' or a little older the whole dreads thing is unappealing.
There's nothing worse than having a good idea for a post not being good enough to pull it off :negative:
you're a few months younger than I was when I trained for capitals. PL used to buy capital skillbooks for non-retarded members with dyspro, and then provided fun shit to do in the capitals that made people want to fly them.
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Right, you want to kill caps, but you don't want to fly caps to do it. Thats like saying you want to kill battleships but you only if you can do it in rifters all day.
Ignoring a class of ship thats designed around killing another class of ship, while crying that the 2nd class is overpowered definitely sounds like a personal problem.
Also you'd like dreads once you got into them, one of the most epic fights I've ever been through in EVE was a huge Dread slug match. Dreads are the poor mans titan, the new guys ride, they are what allows you to compete with the older richer players, you cannot, in the modern game environment, ignore the dread and hope to compete.
When RAIDEN was helicopter dicking all of your tech towers every night in Vale with no support, 80 dreads and 20 dictors would have changed the entire outcome of that situation.
Not that I disagree about the merits of dreads or anything, but you're understating the amount of training needed to get into one - for me to go from gallente BS V/T2 large turrets to a decent (all relevant skills at 4) moros is a bit over three months, which is a fairly big fraction of your total subscribed time if you've only been in game for a year or two. It'd be a bit longer for a Nag because most young-ish minmatar spec people won't have torps V/cruise V.
[I]spherical monkey fears and envies[/I]
Once you fly capitals, your interest in subcaps will go down by a large percentage. No long trips back home, doing a lot of damage to things, etc., all very addicting.
I can understand your point.But what happens when you have 10-20 BIL in your wallet?
Still just flying drakes?Isnt it more interesting to actually evolve in this game and be able to fly something shinier and perhaps more expensive?
There are corps and entities that want their members ready to roll but there are also others that take on new players and show them how stuff are done.
i have a perfect example of a newb we recruited 2 years ago.After 11 months he was buying his supercarrier char.In 12 months he bought his supercarrier.In 18 months in game he had his titan.No moon goo,he got his ISK by himself and using simple game mechanics.You have to realise that not beeing moved forward by your leaders might be because they are just bad in this game and good in facebook online or they do it on purpose to keep you poor and stupid in game
The Naglfar is such an annoying train that you might as well train for a Moros or Revelation anyway - if you've no missile skills whatsoever (unlikely since drakes are now FOTM), but are a pure gunnery junkie, it's probably easier to just bite the bullet and skill up for Armour and Hybrids/Lasers rather than Citadel Missiles and all the support skills.
CCP really ought to take a look at the Naglfar - split weapons systems sound cool on the face on it, but they're just too much hassle in practice. I seem to remember a Dev commenting on the issue once, saying that the reason they didn't want to make the Nag a pure Projectile ship is because the Art Department would have a fit putting more turret hardpoints in as they'd have to redesign a good portion of the ship, but If that's the case, :dealwithit:.
At the end of the day, Armour Capitals are the best anyway, so any drives to get people into Dreads/Carriers should put the onus on Amarr and Gallente ships. TEST have gone some way to make this easier by taking up Zealot fleets, ensuring more people have basic Armour and Laser skills that can be expanded upon to get Revelations as a long term goal, so I say to them ; go for it - the CFC isn't exactly poor, in either people or ISK, so an alliance subsidised Dread-Drive would go a long way to boost effectiveness in fleet fights, and coupled with sensible fleet doctrines (Maels really don't work as well as they did at the height of Dominion lag, and Drakes are fucking Drakes), could potentially make them a force to be reckoned with
Sadly it would mean that fleet fights in nullsec devolve into either Tengu v Amarr or Amarr v Amarr slugfests, but lasers are pretty so that's fine
Holy fuck that's a lot of :words: to say "Fly Revelation"
Oh hey. Supercaps discusions again. Entertaining.
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"Every rifter counts friend" - VR
Actually it's just Dread discussion, we've pretty much come to conclusions on Supercaps
Everyone in nullsec should have more than one account, the way i do it is i have character for subcaps, and 1 for capitals. It's simple, effective, and you can happily train that long carrier 5, knowing that you can get a good few level 5 subcap skills on your subcap character.
In a perfect world...
(4:14:52 AM) grimbold_dengrist: all Marivauder does as a mod is post about being a mod
(11:47:38 AM) endie: If you lot don't stop that I'm moving this corp to test
best way ive seen is one for supers, and one for subcaps/reg caps.
You are right that is better, but subcap char and a capital char is something to start on and then use that foundation for more, which is what i'm doing
(4:14:52 AM) grimbold_dengrist: all Marivauder does as a mod is post about being a mod
(11:47:38 AM) endie: If you lot don't stop that I'm moving this corp to test
this forum for months:
I agree, I have no particular interest in flying a dread in itself. But if you could jump into one, join a fleet of 200 other dreads and drop on a blob of 50 titans and hopefully push someone else's shit in and make them cry, I'd say that makes the proposition a lot better sounding. Just as a general daily ship I'd much prefer a HAC or something, but for the purpose of blapping supers I'd hop into a dread in a split second.
I can't help it if you think it's a loaded question, it's what'll happen if grath's logic for "why titans exist". It was apparently so "bitter vets had something to train for" and "something awesome to use". When alliances run around with full fleets of almost nothing but titans, they'll end up having to have something new to train for, because they need the next shiny.
I want to win without putting any kind of effort in
Give dreads mad resist bonuses and DD immunity in siege.
At least people will be more willing to suicide them.
That is stupid
(4:14:52 AM) grimbold_dengrist: all Marivauder does as a mod is post about being a mod
(11:47:38 AM) endie: If you lot don't stop that I'm moving this corp to test
That's what I tell everyone of my corpmates. If you are in a BS with T2 guns, spend 2 months and get your ass in a dread. Hell, we even pay for some of the cap books and hulls when they get there ^.^
I've noticed that there's a pretty big disconnect between the general consensus of kugu and what's actually happening. It seems enough people have said it in this thread that people are taking it as fact.
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