Start the War Engines: Branching out to Branch

**tgr** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by ripper van

why not? Whats wrong with that? You're talking about that as if it was something awful. In the contrary, the lack of space does the cut between useless carebears, pvpers and dumb people who dont know how to earn money apart from stupudly farming sanctums.

The thing about "wulfpax from NPC" is that it's literally always the last thing you hear from someone being evicted from somewhere, before they explode in a bout of drama.

**aryndel vyst** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by ripper van

why not? Whats wrong with that? You're talking about that as if it was something awful. In the contrary, the lack of space does the cut between useless carebears, pvpers and dumb people who dont know how to earn money apart from stupudly farming sanctums.

It would complete the utter collapse of White Noise into a shell of NPC publord space. In fact, if i were Raiden i'd reset White Noise right now for their NC quality defense of their space. At some point they have to say "well shit why are we doing all the work?" - Well, one would think at least.

**SunBurnedFrog** · 2012-01-06

good fights good fights

content

was in a fleet and there wasnt a PL member in sight

**Lorren Canada** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by ripper van

why not? Whats wrong with that? You're talking about that as if it was something awful. In the contrary, the lack of space does the cut between useless carebears, pvpers and dumb people who dont know how to earn money apart from stupudly farming sanctums.

It's more the point that many alliances claim ~wulfpax~ when they wane and lose space but the vast majority just simply die. So conventional wisdom says that when an alliance starts claiming the ~wulfpax~ strategy, fail cascade is close at hand.

**Manny** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by Lorren Canada

It's more the point that many alliances claim ~wulfpax~ when they wane and lose space but the vast majority just simply die. So conventional wisdom says that when an alliance starts claiming the ~wulfpax~ strategy, fail cascade is close at hand.

You may take they're space but you cannot take New Flat New Teeth New Life.

**Atticus** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by ripper van

why not? Whats wrong with that? You're talking about that as if it was something awful. In the contrary, the lack of space does the cut between useless carebears, pvpers and dumb people who dont know how to earn money apart from stupudly farming sanctums.

Sure worked well for MM and Brick lmao

**Endeva** · 2012-01-06

70 pages of propaganda material and personal not objective observations of non important ppl (except few here) in what? 16 days. just wow. u guys were really bored over vacations

**Aria Kink** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by Endeva

70 pages of propaganda material and personal not objective observations of non important ppl (except few here) in what? 16 days. just wow. u guys were really bored over vacations

My god. The spelling, grammar and other shit in this post is worse than the 70 pages of propaganda I believe you are bitching about...

On a related note, I wasn't bored over the holidays what with going away etc. but I still found time to log in and do my bit (admittedly a "small" bit) because it was fun as hell. Now if people could start seeding the market (Scorpions and various T2 mods for said ships would be ace) in 1XI I would be most grateful.

**Malcanis** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by tgr

The thing about "wulfpax from NPC" is that it's literally always the last thing you hear from someone being evicted from somewhere, before they explode in a bout of drama.

Depends on the alliance tbh. There are plenty of counter-examples to your assertion, include my own dear bunch of drunken faggots as well as PL, Gypsy, and of course let's not forget how White Noise started in the first place. If the alliance is an active, aggressive, vigorous group with a PvP-orientated membership that simply lost the game of thrones, then regrouping in NPC 0.0 will work out just fine. If it's essentially moribund, with an inactive/incompetent leadership and with no quality control over the membership, then they'll fail and die in the unforgiving environment of NPC 0.0.

I leave the determination of which description applies to WN to you.

**Fkin** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by tgr

Too late, you're apuSMASH now.

**Scotch** · 2012-01-06

If history is any indication, they'll move to Delve to find themselves.

I, for one, welcome more playmates.

**Doddy** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by ripper van

why not? Whats wrong with that? You're talking about that as if it was something awful. In the contrary, the lack of space does the cut between useless carebears, pvpers and dumb people who dont know how to earn money apart from stupudly farming sanctums.

It is the well known last stage of alliance death, usually it never happens, and if it does happen said alliance usually shrinks down to nothing when its nullbears start missing their sanctums.

**Someone Else** · 2012-01-06

And the tide turns, here comes the heroic counter offensive:

22:04 Corporation The Knights Templar has joined alliance White Noise.

**Opti** · 2012-01-06

some people will suck terrible dick for promises of tech that will never come because goons stole it all

**aryndel vyst** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by Opti

some people will suck terrible dick for promises of tech that will never come because goons stole it all

They wouldn't see the tech anyway even if we hadn't invaded.

**Marivauder** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by Someone Else

And the tide turns, here comes the heroic counter offensive:

22:04 Corporation The Knights Templar has joined alliance White Noise.

These guys are RAGE-ing to the rescue

**Aralyn** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by ripper van

why not? Whats wrong with that? You're talking about that as if it was something awful. In the contrary, the lack of space does the cut between useless carebears, pvpers and dumb people who dont know how to earn money apart from stupudly farming sanctums.

As long as it happens, theres nothing wrong with it, just as other folks have pointed out, its usually the last words of an alliance before it desolves into highsec.

Personally, I really hope the 'real' WN guys (ie, the PvPers, not the fair-weather carebears that joined on at the end) do stay around, some of my happiest time in null is when Pure Blind and Fade were being constantly visited by NC. and Evoke gangs; having a hungry pvp alliance perched on the borders keeps you honest

**LazTel** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by Someone Else

And the tide turns, here comes the heroic counter offensive:

22:04 Corporation The Knights Templar has joined alliance White Noise.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/corp/The_K...plar/alliances

:wtc: lookit that alliance history

R.A.G.E
Cascade Imminent
Pure.
IRC
Vanguard.

...we are properly fucked now evaccing my shit from dek.

**zodt** · 2012-01-06

What the flying FUCK is a Cruisepest

**ripper van** · 2012-01-06

is this thread full soon?

**Konev** · 2012-01-06

just one more waffer, its just waffer thin.

**roadhooker** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by ripper van

is this thread full soon?

My friend, it's already full.

**Opti** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by zodt

What the flying FUCK is a Cruisepest

imma go out on a limb here and say a tempest with cruise firezemissiles

**Malcanis** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by zodt

What the flying FUCK is a Cruisepest

[Tempest Fleet Issue, Cruisepest]
Damage Control II
Local Hull Conversion Reinforced Bulkheads I
Local Hull Conversion Reinforced Bulkheads I
Local Hull Conversion Reinforced Bulkheads I
Local Hull Conversion Reinforced Bulkheads I
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Gist X-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution

Gotan's Modified Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile
Gotan's Modified Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Gotan's Modified Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Devastator Cruise Missile
Gotan's Modified Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Large Remote Hull Repair System II
Large Remote Hull Repair System II
Large Remote Hull Repair System II
Large Remote Hull Repair System II

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell II
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I

Curator II x1
Warden II x1
Bouncer II x1
Garde II x1

**Magere** · 2012-01-06

My skull hurts a lil' bit now.

**Hilmar Keller** · 2012-01-06

A flying fuck indeed.

**Lorren Canada** · 2012-01-06

That's gonna be a secret santa gift some year

**aryndel vyst** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by Lorren Canada

That's gonna be a secret santa gift some year

I'd consider that getting deadbeated.

**Marivauder** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by Malcanis

[Tempest Fleet Issue, Cruisepest]
Damage Control II
Local Hull Conversion Reinforced Bulkheads I
Local Hull Conversion Reinforced Bulkheads I
Local Hull Conversion Reinforced Bulkheads I
Local Hull Conversion Reinforced Bulkheads I
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Gist X-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution

Gotan's Modified Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile
Gotan's Modified Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Gotan's Modified Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Devastator Cruise Missile
Gotan's Modified Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Large Remote Hull Repair System II
Large Remote Hull Repair System II
Large Remote Hull Repair System II
Large Remote Hull Repair System II

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell II
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I

Curator II x1
Warden II x1
Bouncer II x1
Garde II x1

Shit

I can't use t2 Sentries

**Horus** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by Endeva

70 pages of propaganda material and personal not objective observations of non important ppl (except few here) in what? 16 days. just wow. u guys were really bored over vacations

you not where all supposed to make a new alliance what 3 days ago ? changed idea again?

(and probably changed idea another 6 time during this 3 days according by past experience)

Originally Posted by Someone Else

And the tide turns, here comes the heroic counter offensive:

22:04 Corporation The Knights Templar has joined alliance White Noise.

they where supposed to join 3 weeks ago, did someone tell them branch is no more?

**Marivauder** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by Endeva

70 pages of propaganda material and personal not objective observations of non important ppl (except few here) in what? 16 days. just wow. u guys were really bored over vacations

I hope this is a kugu record, quickest thread to reach 100 pages.

**Malaclypse** · 2012-01-06

Is Endeva really Sacul? And if so, why isn't he using Sacul to post?

**Malcanis** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by Marivauder

Shit

I can't use t2 Sentries

You probably don't have Engineering XIX either.

**Lake** · 2012-01-06

Armor timers in White/Black rings. Shield timers in green rings. Only PKG4-7 remains in WN's hands and unreffed (but, sssh don't tell anyone, the SBUs are onlining right now).

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Branch...:KMC-WI:EWN-2U

And of course the obligatory pie chart. I've stopped breaking out reffed vs non-reffed WN systems.

Previous charts were exercises "Enable All The Features" but I actually don't like them. I've gone with a more typical flat color chart because I can't be bothered to click all of those checkboxes anymore

These updates are actually pretty trivial to make. I'm in the habit of copy/pasting the timer tracker table into a spreadsheet and doing a search/replace in a text editor to get the dotlan map. It helps to eyeball what timers might have been missed or incorrectly entered (UB-UQZ is one I caught last time, f'ex).

Once I'm doing that it's not much more effort to copy two more tables from dotlan for the sov data and make the pie charts with a simple "COUNTIF" from those.

Really what we need is for Art' to add a "View Region On Dotlan" link to the timer tracker (he already links to systems). I assume google's chart thing that Wollari uses for dotlan also supports pie charts so that's practical enough.

I did some other sums regarding sov structure EHP that might be amusing.

That's 387 structure shoots not including TCUs. 129 initial refs, 129 shield, and 129 armor. Including TCUs Branch has 224 sov structures (95/ea Hub and TCU, 34 stations).

Because you get some "free" HP burned off with the timers (for example they reff at 25% shields but come out of shield timer at 0% shields) don't need to grind through every HP. However it's still quite a bit.

In fact it's a surprisingly round 20 billion HP to conquer Branch, assuming no double-timers, no shield regen, and all systems are hubbed (none of these are true, incidentally). If you were to do it all with Maelstroms (T2 guns, perfect skills, always in optimal, etc) it would take 7,407 Maelstrom-Hours of structure shooting (just under a year).

We may be well known for getting 3+ fleets rolling but nobody can do that for an entire campaign. Further, most of these timers have come out in AUTZ or early EUTZ where our (and most of EVE's) numbers are quite a bit lower to start with. I've run plenty of fleets at these times with ~100 members, never mind 100 maelstroms.

Assuming 100 Maels in fleet, perfect skills, half time on target half formup/travel time, that's 148 hours of fleet. Over 6 days non-stop shooting structures by 100 people.

Fortunately for all of our sanity assuming 100 Maels isn't accurate, and use of (super) capitals has reduced the grind. Though not enough.

Consider this my vote for fixing Dominion Sov.

**smg77** · 2012-01-06

Originally Posted by Lake

Consider this my vote for fixing Dominion Sov.

Or nerfing Dabigredboat

**Arrador** · 2012-01-06

God Damn, Fuck dominion.

**Far** · 2012-01-06

Don't worry Lake, it's almost over.

Also, nothing in branch for 16 jumps... then gate camp in QXQ. *shakes fist*

Damn you Kugu, distracting me from the monotony of gates.

**Goblin** · 2012-01-07

Originally Posted by Lake

3.14159

This man knows his way around pie. I fucking like it.

**lazygun** · 2012-01-07

Originally Posted by Hellkitty

You seem to be forgetting that in the past, Russians have proven very good at holding grudges. I wouldn't be surprised if they came back with a vengeance if you leave them any breathing room (and they manage to actually keep their alliance together).

Heh. Goons have been grudge holders to the extent that even russians say damn dude, let it go already. Everything has to be a foreverwar.

**Carebears** · 2012-01-07

Helljumpers left WN. slopes for the slope throne etc.

It also looks like Oberon Incorporated not only left WN. but actually switched sides since they've now joined RAZOR.

**Lorren Canada** · 2012-01-07

I've always wondered if you halved the total amount of EHP on all sov structures and removed half of the the timers for systems you would have a half decent, CCP idiocy proof, "quick fix" for sov mechanics.

**Arrador** · 2012-01-07

Originally Posted by Lorren Canada

I've always wondered if you halved the total amount of EHP on all sov structures and removed half of the the timers for systems you would have a half decent, CCP idiocy proof, "quick fix" for sov mechanics.

Nerf the HP, yes. But you'll never solve the Timer problem. It's why coalitions/mega alliances bulk up on TZ coverage.

**Checkbox Poll** · 2012-01-07

Originally Posted by Arrador

Nerf the HP, yes. But you'll never solve the Timer problem. It's why coalitions/mega alliances bulk up on TZ coverage.

cut timers in half too? i'd be okay with max 24hour stront as well

**Perseus Kallistratos** · 2012-01-07

Originally Posted by Checkbox Poll

cut timers in half too? i'd be okay with max 24hour stront as well

make a wider variance in timer probability. right now its pretty specific as to when it will come out-make it more random and you have a wild card scenario

**roadhooker** · 2012-01-07

Originally Posted by Checkbox Poll

cut timers in half too? i'd be okay with max 24hour stront as well

This, this, 1000 times this

**Sentinel Eeex** · 2012-01-07

Originally Posted by Carebears

Helljumpers left WN. slopes for the slope throne etc.

It also looks like Oberon Incorporated not only left WN. but actually switched sides since they've now joined RAZOR.

It was done with style, in local channel:

[ 2012.01.06 19:04:53 ] Samurai Okie > Well Then... So Long and Thanks for All the fish
[ 2012.01.06 19:04:56 ] Samurai Okie > o/

**MindRanger** · 2012-01-07

Man, I've never read so much useless propaganda in my life...

Shut the f**k up, that goes in particular to the CFC. You guys are proving, short term wise, that Darwin was wrong. Long term wise, you'll get humanity extinct. Fair enough, now shut the fuck up...

Have a nice day.