DD Nerf on Sisi arrived

[Steelrat]

Don't know if it's old news but it's significant news.

Notes: This weapon can only fire on ships that are capital-sized or larger. After firing, you will be immobile for thirty seconds and will be unable to activate your jump drive or cloaking device for ten minutes.

Is that enough to nerf the Titans? It certainly is stopping the Fleetbooster/T3/Logi killing on grid but is it enough or should the tracking of the normal guns also be nerfed? How much will that nerf change the fights in 0.0?

More importantly is CCP getting on the right track after so many months or is that my wishful thinking.

[Gossip Whore]

Iti s going to piss a lot of people off, but I think it is okay. Better than some other nerfs they could have done.

[Glomp]

Ah ha see just as I have the isk and char in place to get something it is nerfed. ITT tell me what you want nerfed and I will train for it.

[tgr]

Don't train for rifters.

[Traakile]

Explain to a measly peasant like me how well do titans track stuff with guns and how often are they used to kill said stuff?

[Sean Alenko]

Is that enough to nerf the Titans?

This is an minor nerf to Titans, dd'ing a few ships on jump in helps but it's the guns that decimate fleets.

It certainly is stopping the Fleetbooster/T3/Logi killing on grid but is it enough or should the tracking of the normal guns also be nerfed?

Always doomsday damage ships, if you opponents support dies they will run away. (The old NC are the only ones I've seen doomsday support)

A better solution would be to leave doomsdays as they are, and reduce gun tracking by 50%.

How much will that nerf change the fights in 0.0?

Titan blobs will still rule supreme.

More importantly is CCP getting on the right track after so many months or is that my wishful thinking.

No.

[cloaky]

Explain to a measly peasant like me how well do titans track stuff with guns and how often are they used to kill said stuff?

Titans guns track better than most lower classes. Somewhere in Kugu there's a log of someone in a titan tracking a dramiel and instpopping it. Try that in a BS.

They are used quite regularly by the people that actually fly them in combat. Most tactics I've seen are jump in DD logi and use guns on damage dealers.

[Aurora148]

posted this yesterday

probably a more affecting change to gameplay:

[Malcanis]

Explain to a measly peasant like me how well do titans track stuff with guns and how often are they used to kill said stuff?

Titan guns are murder on BS/BCs; a tracking nerf is the obvious next step, but as ever

[tgr]

Titans guns track better than most lower classes. Somewhere in Kugu there's a log of someone in a titan tracking a dramiel and instpopping it. Try that in a BS.

Actually, iirc that was reported as a dramiel burning straight away from the titan.

[Brooks Puuntai]

Titan guns are murder on BS/BCs; a tracking nerf is the obvious next step, but as ever

I would have thought they would've nerf tracking before nerfing the DD. However I then realized this is CCP we're talking about.

[tgr]

Also yes, titan guns being murder on BS/BCs is correct, one of the few drakes I lost during the fountain war period came at the hands of a PL titan shooting me while I was trying to warp away. It'd been in 20-30 huge fights before then, including saving one of the goon supercarriers (a wyvern), and the titan was the first thing that even came close to killing it.

[Aurora148]

i pay 100b for a ship it fucking better be able to hit what i want it to hit

(not doomsdays though)

[MtA]

The doomsday nerf will keep the first 10 titans to jump on grid from destroying 1 FC and 9 logis, effectively ending the opposing sub cap fleet.

As for the tracking, I don't know just how bad (good in this case) it is, but a titan should retain the ability to pop a supportless BC with relative ease, as long as it isn't 1 BC per weapon cycle every cycle.

[Fix Lag]

Expand the gun's sig radius modifier thingy for hitting so that it's vastly more effective against capitals and absolutely terrible against subcaps unless they have 0 transversal

Also make supercarrier models bigger CCP, TIA

[Insane Virus]

A titan is called a titan with a reason. It's not meant to only taxi fleets or hog a POS bubble. It should be big, bad, and ruthless on the field. Should it be able to decimate fleets? Maybe not, but if anything can hit it why not give it a chance to fight back because not everyone can field the same sized ships. Let it at least hit battleships, save the smaller stuff for support fleets. If you're going to spend 100b on one ship at least let that ship be able to do something other than be an ornament.

[Fix Lag]

titans don't cost a hundred billion isk

[Insane Virus]

No, they don't cost that much but a guesstimate is 100B considering sell orders on Eve-O forums+fitting.

[Fix Lag]

the eve-o forums

[Brooks Puuntai]

titans don't cost a hundred billion isk

Think some factor in the price of a titan pilot as well. Who knows 100b sounds better anyways.

[uhh yeah dude]

Expand the gun's sig radius modifier thingy for hitting so that it's vastly more effective against capitals and absolutely terrible against subcaps unless they have 0 transversal

Also make supercarrier models bigger CCP, TIA

This

[Dragon]

Damm no more dding people i don't like on jump in

[omgdutch2005]

CCP and the wonderfull bat of NERF!! \o/ (why did i start training for a titan again?)

[Checkbox Poll]

everyone seems pretty okay with this nerf

[Propagandas]

Explain to a measly peasant like me how well do titans track stuff with guns and how often are they used to kill said stuff?

If you have supercap brawl fit (max tank no dmg mods nor tracking enchanters) you can not track battleships that are moving (they are always moving).

If you fit braveman fit (no tank, 2 tracking computers and 3 tracking enchanters, 3 dmg mods) you kill a bs every 10 secs and you can also 1 shot really bad bc pilots.

Alas you can only do the braveman fit if you are fighting an enemy that is too coward to counter drop supers on you (like goons) or you will get put in the 0wnzone.



tl dr; the dd nerf doesnt change much in the titan vs subcap department.
If this is the only supercap nerf in ~winter is coming~ the rage will reach epic levels x)

[Dental Floss]

So basically if Goons engage a White Noise titan blob with 50 hics and 300 maelstroms, WN won't be able to go WOLOLOL and DD every single hic with impunity anymore?

Doesn't sound like such a bad nerf to me, though I also like Elektrea's suggestion of making it based on sig radius.

[Kazanir]

Since I can blap BSes in my brave-man-fitted Moros, I bet a ship with twice the tracking and the possibility of remote tracking enhancement can still fit quite a lot of tank and tear through BS no problem.

[Propagandas]

Titans guns track better than most lower classes. Somewhere in Kugu there's a log of someone in a titan tracking a dramiel and instpopping it. Try that in a BS.

They are used quite regularly by the people that actually fly them in combat. Most tactics I've seen are jump in DD logi and use guns on damage dealers.

that dramiel was mwd straight away from the titan with a 0 m/s transversal, that means everything will hit it since mwd gives you what, 10x the ammount of sig radius


Post numners of "titan guns tracking better then most lower classes" beacuse i want to laugh at you m8

[Dental Floss]

If you have supercap brawl fit (max tank no dmg mods nor tracking enchanters) you can not track battleships that are moving (they are always moving).

If you fit braveman fit (no tank, 2 tracking computers and 3 tracking enchanters, 3 dmg mods) you kill a bs every 10 secs and you can also 1 shot really bad bc pilots.

Alas you can only do the braveman fit if you are fighting an enemy that is too coward to counter drop supers on you (like goons) or you will get put in the 0wnzone.



tl dr; the dd nerf doesnt change much in the titan vs subcap department.
If this is the only supercap nerf in ~winter is coming~ the rage will reach epic levels x)

Or you can do the braveman fit and just refit when the enemy drops supers.

Unless you're Centra, in which case all your mods get bugged and then you're totally fucked until you scream until a triage archon sacrifices himself for you.

[Propagandas]

Or you can do the braveman fit and just refit when the enemy drops supers.

Unless you're Centra, in which case all your mods get bugged and then you're totally fucked until you scream until a triage archon sacrifices himself for you.

No you can not.
There will be to many ships around you in a supercap fight to refit, not to mention the bumping.

[Propagandas]

Okay propagandas serious post of titan tracking.
This is just numbers, im not really into the whole nerf titans dont nerf titans discussion:


Max skilled pilot in normal fit hellcat (pulse baddon) tracking: 0.069 rad/sec
Max skilled pilot in normal fit pulse avatar: 0.0053 rad/sec

I just checked this ingame since im really bad at math and cant be bothered to use eft. But notice the extra 0 infront of the titan tracking.

A normal fitted pulse avatar can not hit a normal fitt abaddon that have transversal within 50 km range.

That means it can hit coward alpha maelstroms that align away from it at their medium retard range ~70 km range.

It can not hit close range bc fleets, close range bs fleets, aligned lr bcs, lr hacs, proper sniper bs fleets.
So yea, maybe one should change fleet setup instead of crying but what do i know v0v.


Sup, another serious post brought to you by your favorite poster, cya again in a month.

[Omeega]

So basically if Goons engage a White Noise titan blob with 50 hics and 300 maelstroms, WN won't be able to go WOLOLOL and DD every single hic with impunity anymore?

No, but we will still be able to instapop 50 maelstroms every 10 seconds!

[Malcanis]

A titan is called a titan with a reason. It's not meant to only taxi fleets or hog a POS bubble. It should be big, bad, and ruthless on the field. Should it be able to decimate fleets? Maybe not, but if anything can hit it why not give it a chance to fight back because not everyone can field the same sized ships. Let it at least hit battleships, save the smaller stuff for support fleets. If you're going to spend 100b on one ship at least let that ship be able to do something other than be an ornament.

Ah, the old "it ought to be omnipotent because it's expensive" fallacy.

How dazzlingly unoriginal of you.

[Fix Lag]

I think the reason p. much everyone is onboard with the DD nerf is that titans being able to DD off all the hics and logis without needing a support fleet very much was/is dumb and not very fair (and when I say fair I mean what can you fit on a subcap to counter a doomsday....nothing)

[Omeega]

In my days people called overpowered a module that instapoped everything on grid apart from capital ships!

[Malcanis]

Okay propagandas serious post of titan tracking.
This is just numbers, im not really into the whole nerf titans dont nerf titans discussion:


Max skilled pilot in normal fit hellcat (pulse baddon) tracking: 0.069 rad/sec
Max skilled pilot in normal fit pulse avatar: 0.0053 rad/sec

I just checked this ingame since im really bad at math and cant be bothered to use eft. But notice the extra 0 infront of the titan tracking.

A normal fitted pulse avatar can not hit a normal fitt abaddon that have transversal within 50 km range.

That means it can hit coward alpha maelstroms that align away from it at their medium retard range ~70 km range.

It can not hit close range bc fleets, close range bs fleets, aligned lr bcs, lr hacs, proper sniper bs fleets.
So yea, maybe one should change fleet setup instead of crying but what do i know v0v.


Sup, another serious post brought to you by your favorite poster, cya again in a month.

Since you accidentally chose the worst tracking short-range turret type, and didn't specify what a "normal" fit was, I looked up the stats for a Ragnarok with Meta ACs and no more than a couple of Faction (Serp) Tracking computers. Tracking: 0.0107 - almost exactly double the value you cited. Assume that the titan pilot can afford some low-grade officer mods, and that value starts climbing even higher.

[Dental Floss]

No, but we will still be able to instapop 50 maelstroms every 10 seconds!

When Mittens posted his CEO update several weeks ago, a tracking nerf to titans was mentioned as the result of CSM meetings. I'm pretty sure it's not far behind the DD nerf. What seems most likely is that supers will end up becoming trebuchets and titans will become trebuchets that can kill other trebuchets.

Since you accidentally chose the worst tracking short-range turret type, and didn't specify what a "normal" fit was, I looked up the stats for a Ragnarok with Meta ACs and no more than a couple of Faction (Serp) Tracking computers. Tracking: 0.0107 - almost exactly double the value you cited. Assume that the titan pilot can afford some low-grade officer mods, and that value starts climbing even higher.

Which is still almost 1/7th the tracking of a hellcat. Original argument was on the tracking of a titan vs the tracking of a BS, not the tracking of a titan in isolation.

[Pilious]

Disappointing if this is the only change, but a decent one.....without a support fleet you will in all likelyhood lose dropping 25 titans on the field. With that said the bigger question is what happens to the super carriers and the dread changes to finish the balancing act. At the end of the day it was the super carrier blobs that were a bigger problems then titans because there 1 shot kills took time to cycle and you could force a miss by warping off.

[Malcanis]

In my days people called overpowered a module that instapoped everything on grid apart from capital ships!

You may recall that the DD was initially changed when PL demonstrated their capability to DD a carrier on Tranquility. Since then Titan fleets have been deployed that exceed that demo fleet's size.

[The quick and the dead]

If you have supercap brawl fit (max tank no dmg mods nor tracking enchanters) you can not track battleships that are moving (they are always moving).

If you fit braveman fit (no tank, 2 tracking computers and 3 tracking enchanters, 3 dmg mods) you kill a bs every 10 secs and you can also 1 shot really bad bc pilots.

Alas you can only do the braveman fit if you are fighting an enemy that is too coward to counter drop supers on you (like goons) or you will get put in the 0wnzone.



tl dr; the dd nerf doesnt change much in the titan vs subcap department.
If this is the only supercap nerf in ~winter is coming~ the rage will reach epic levels x)

I'm honestly curious if you think they're called tracking enchanters.

[Fix Lag]

You may recall that the DD was initially changed when PL demonstrated their capability to DD a carrier on Tranquility. Since then Titan fleets have been deployed that exceed that demo fleet's size.

he was making a funny

[Malcanis]

he was making a funny

I just woke up from my nap and I'm dopier than usual atm

[Propagandas]

Since you accidentally chose the worst tracking short-range turret type, and didn't specify what a "normal" fit was, I looked up the stats for a Ragnarok with Meta ACs and no more than a couple of Faction (Serp) Tracking computers. Tracking: 0.0107 - almost exactly double the value you cited. Assume that the titan pilot can afford some low-grade officer mods, and that value starts climbing even higher.

You do know there is only 1 long range gun and 1 close range gun on titans right? Unless you mean the named gun, which i allready used in those numbers.
If you are asking why i chose avatar that is because i could log one in and check stats ingame v0v

But yes, as i said, if i fit the 2 meta 14 tracking computers + 2 meta 14 tracking ench i too get 0.01 tracking.
But this also means 150 proper fit battleships kill you in about 140 secs, so nobody does that exept the brave legionares in pandemic legion.
edit; your braverman fitted rag will pop even faster since its such a bad titan btw.

And crying nerf because PL is braver then the common man seems stupid to me v0v

[The Mittani]

if you think this is the only supercap change that will be making it to sisi after all the stuff stoffer openly talked about at pax, i can only imagine you clutching at a supercap-shaped animu bodypillow and crying about how your love will not be taken away from you and how everything will be all right

[Malcanis]

You do know there is only 1 long range gun and 1 close range gun on titans right?

Yes I do. I said turret type in the sense of laser-projectile-hybrid.


PL's bravery in 1v1ing Drakes with titans will be sung through the ages.

[Iratus]

The simple fact that they can't DD hictors is a good start, in my scrubby oppinion. Now, nerf tracking, for fucks sake.

EDIT: Also, lol at people wanting to nerf titans because "PL is brave". It's all about you, ain't it?

[Propagandas]

Yes I do. I said turret type in the sense of laser-projectile-hybrid.


PL's bravery in 1v1ing Drakes with titans will be sung through the ages.

Using the most common titan when talking about titans is sure a sign of madness

EDIT: Also, lol at people wanting to nerf titans because "PL is brave". It's all about you, ain't it?

Well if you dont fit them the brave way they are completely useless as i proved in my awesome post.
But I guess if you rather listen to sperglords then that is up to you my friend v0v


edit; boost levis

[Iratus]

Madness? no. Bias and an attempt to hide the fact that tracking does need a nerf? Certainly.

Not even you can say that your "normal fit" avatar is the only one used, not with a straight face, proppy.

[Traakile]

Fit rigors on levi, go rat? The raven pilot in me tells that this would be a great idea.

[Propagandas]

At the end of the day it was the super carrier blobs that were a bigger problems then titans because there 1 shot kills took time to cycle and you could force a miss by warping off.

Is this a troll or what?
I can agree that bravefit titans roflstomp support, but what does SC's has anything to do with it? They are so useless we rarely bring them along when we are titan blapping.

Madness? no. Bias and an attempt to hide the fact that tracking does need a nerf? Certainly.

Not even you can say that your "normal fit" avatar is the only one used, not with a straight face, proppy.

Normal fit is full tank in the lows, that is what you use in supercap fights.
You can only safetly use a non tank fit when you are fighting some1 who is too affraid to use supers themselves or doesnt know how to field a proper supergank bs fleet.
Which means you can only use those fits against goons and NC v0v