Please also note that pvp directors in ASCN, as well as PvP populace could not get T2 at a decent price. Ask pvpers who left ASCN why they left.
Sure - Discounted Cloak from 80mil jita price to 70Mil ASCN Price - if you wait 2 weeks for the red tape to get it and even then - only a limited amount (as in less than 5) were available at this price - it was all a token joke. You could get exactly the same item via escrow or market from the same person for 100mil. It was all a marketing gimmic to stop people leaving.
Same with any other t2 goods ascn did alliance deals with - Everything was at a rip off price on escrow or market, which made pvpers pack up and leave, since bob were getting t2 at cost price. For example, Jita vagabons going for 200mil ASCN Market and escrow price for a vaga was going for 230mil, bob vaga's going for cost price (i.e stabber price pretty much - perhaps 5-10mil?) - and if you wait 2-3 weeks, you could get one on the ASCN alliancealliance for 190mil. Bargin.
Which, even if true (yeah right), means they were giving t2 ships to alliance members at below market value. Which is what he said.
Your information analysis skills are once again letting you down. Oh, by the way, market value is not the same as production value.
What I am saying is that there was no alliance benifit. ASCN was just a holding name for a ISK farmer style alliance of indviduals and self centered corps. Thats why ASCN failed. Imagine a corp where everybody does their own thing - they wont stand a chance when compared to a corp that is closely knit and works together.
Now imagine an alliance where every corp is a individual. Thats a joke of an alliance because its just really a bunch of corps wanting undera holding banner to sort out standings.
Only in your own head. The only thing that matched everyones hatred of BOB is the fact that everyone thought BOB were a compleate joke, and, guess what, they still do.
That is rather subjective, because if you look at it - Nobody helped ASCN - LV helped ASCN for 1 day, and ASCN cocked it up so badly with the T-CAG scenario that LV gave up on them.
On the other hand - I count dozens of corps and alliances that help bob.
Selfcentered corps? You mean corps that take rent from other corps that they arrogantly call "pets"?
There were quite a few alliances/corps that helped ASCN, but in the end BoD's metagaming won the day. Great victory...not.
Dozens of corps that help BoD? You mean your pets? The pets that you throw to the dogs at a whim?
You keep talking about alliances that shouldn't be in 0.0. What about corps/alliances that have to pay rent to be there? How pathetic is that?
Oh btw, how is the teaching/stockbrokering going? I hope you aren't grading any english papers with that grammar.
There's a HILARIOUS thread on the Goon forums about how FIX is on the verge of collapse.
IAC is getting a LOT of help and is rolling FIX over. The FIX guy that lost a Mothership and then subsequently bailed out of FIX is telling Tyrrax and Co. about how FIX are waiting on BOB to show up and whining that it isn't happening.
Funnier is the fact that this whole Evol corp theft has put BOB in a bind. If they leave to help FIX Omist will fall literally overnight (it's already falling, just check TCF's new stations) and Feyth will start getting rolled up.
The only front where BOB and friends are ok is the North. And even there MM and Razor and starting to gain back territory. It's a full retreat for the "Alliance of Asshats."
The southern pets won't get that discount for a while, unless BoB generously counts heavy raiding gangs as being on the front lines...
The Goons staged a strategic/tactical withdrawel to Teneferis when they left feyth last time--the reason is that Omist is a bitch to hold onto with the massive mooncounts it has, and the goons had taken the place over so fast that their infrastructure/logistics in the area was tenuous at best. Now that Omist is back on the frontlines, they're going to advance as fast as logistics allows (if they're smart about it, anyway)--so it may be a week or two before feyth starts to be contested.
The main area that might see accelerated attack schedules is RIT--RISE is close to constellation sov there (if they don't already have it), and once they get it it'll be a bitch to uproot.
I would think that RIT could be left alone by the goons for now. Let RISE play defense as they have shown they can zerg RIT defense pretty well. With IAC/AAA assaulting Quer, wouldn't AZN/E-P/VNG be the next best target? Holding those systems would be easier due ot the lower moon count and cover AAAs backdoor. At the same time it would help cut off DR in case Intrepid Crossing wants it stations back.
I've said it before and i'll repeat it but Goons shouldn't go after the southern pets with anything more then raiders. You entice the southern pets to go neutral against bob and that cuts off some of bob's income.
The southern pets may never go neutral with BoB--they see BoB as the one hope that the Redswarm federation won't roll over them. If they renounce bob, what guarantees do they have that they'll be left alone by the Goons?
Also, the point wasn't so much to evict RISE early as it was that should they get constellation sov, it will take a prolonged siege to push them out as the capital is immune to sov attacks.
I mean, how do you explain BOB fleets being made up of 25% BOB and 75% RISE/CORM/Exec. Outcomes/Finfleet/and the list goes on? These guys PAY BOB to help them lose ships to Goons, TCF, and RA. It's frakkin' hilarious and sad all at the same time. It's like Stockholm syndrome or something. Once you get sucked in you can't do anything except keep handing over your ISK and ships while becoming cannon fodder for BOB.
It's even more amazing considering how ABSOLUTELY ZERO credit BOB ever gives to it's pets. It's all BOB's K/D ratio (pet losses excluded) this, and BOB taking over that, or BOB doing this. Funny when the pets are doing all the heavy lifting.
In reality, attacking the pets is the ONLY way to proceed forward. They pay BOB rent. If you skip them over and go straight to BOB space you leave a staging area between you and your supply line. Normally that wouldn't worry ya if it was just incompetent pets to deal with. However, BOB can use their systems as a storage area for ships and material as well as a place to gather and attack your rear.
Besides, what good does attacking Delve or Period Basis do? CCP was kind enough to grant BOB ALLLLLLLLLL those wonderful NPC stations so you'd never be able to root them out. They'd hold on fiercely to a few systems where they'd store their capitals at and then the rest of the time they'd rally from Blood Raider stations. It'd be like fighting urban warfare or some shit where the enemy can pop out at ya from anywhere and then disappear.
A better idea is to roll Omist over and work on grabbing a foothold in Feyth. Get IAC and friends to push FIX to the breaking point and make BOB decide what they wanna do. Lose Omist for good and maybe your hold on Feyth. . .or lose Querious and have AAA/IAC and friends right next door? At this point it's call in MC for backup (and lose a shit ton of face doing so) or you're screwed.
No, pushing the pets back is the best idea. Make them flee like Dark Rising to Empire and stop paying BOB. Cut off the money train and make BOB members log in and rat/mine to keep their ships flowing. Then things go downhill. You're moving backwards. You're losing fleet battles to the Goons. You're not getting the free billions of ISK every month. More members start swiping shit from the hangars. Failure cascade.
OOOOkay.. I've been a bit quiet in the whole FIX and IAC thing because hey I'm there.. but since it has been brought up.. and the title still is Sir T vs BOB..
Fix are not exactly dead but they are looking very very zombie like at this point. IAC has bee running into Querlous at will and patrolling south Q for over a week now. Fix began to go quiet about 10 days ago. There has been skirmishes all over and general havoc and constant constant pressure in 49-U6U. AAA has been hitting them very hard as well from the other angle. I was actually involved when that Mothership cap array went bang, as a covert ops pilot scouting systems. IAC was involved in blockading the system. The fix response to the attack was.. nothing. They did form a 20-30 man gang alright, but they went around hitting our reinforcements coming up from catch. So the reinforcements formed a gang of their own and trapped them into one system between that gang and our main one for an hour and a half. As someone I know from AAA said when I told him about it, he said it was probably all they could do is hit our reinforcements. Its gone to guerrilla warfare, and really its obvious their heart isn't in it. There are a few of them that are still making attempts to fight but really they are few among many many guys that, to put it mildly, dont. IAC has been shooting the services off the station in 49-u for the past 4 days out of boredom. FIX been hit constantly by 2 powerful forces and some smaller smaller onces (brotherhood of steel, prime orbital systems are the ones that come to mind.)
Last night, I might as well reveal that we after softening up FIX and increasing the pressure night after night we formed up, locked down 49-U and then we jumped some allied dreadnoughts and began what I believe will be the final siege of 49-U. Fix response was effectively nil when we hit their towers. However our (excellent) scouts did spot BOB (bnc.E) beginning to anchor 2 large Minmatar towers in H74-B0 (I think), naturally we left a picket force in 49-U and ran up and chased off the hauler before it come and fuel the things (there was a BOD carrier in system too that spent its time docked once it saw us) and hit the towers. Waste of ammo so we left a picket force in H7 and went back to 49. We sat around popped into existence.. but a cyno jammer array. Everyone was like WTF. They wait till we have dreads in system and then block all other capitals from coming in, thereby removing all hope of killing our caps. Smooth strategic thinking really. Anyway after kicking enough fix Poses into reinforced and I helped out refueling the dreads they attacked the array.. which is an absolute pain in the arse to kill btw. I dunno what CCP was thinking with those things. Then quick hop up to H7 and those BOB towers were vaporised. SO 49-u is currently officially under siege indead of being practically under siege and I was through it today and there was more blues than reds, a situation that has been constant over 4 days.
Fix are basically pulling up to north Querulous where they can concentrate better. They have no choice. I think we can actually expect an actual battle once the towers come out of Reinforced, but I wouldn't bet my life savings on it. Fix have been abandoned by BOB and MC, and they know it.
I just got one question... I WANTED to ask it in the other thread but *click*
Eve3007- whats the name of yer company? I just wanna look it up cause Im corious.
You dont have to love someone to realize that when you dont support him when he is attacked YOU will be next. Especially D2 learned this the hard way.
[i]Leaving the game? Send your stuffz to "Other Ideas", preferably with a very long contract[/i] - :v: [SIZE="4"]? ? ?[/SIZE]
When I read about BoB/EVOL being ripped off by a traitor, I cannot help but smile and mumble "Remember 00Y, ya bastards ?! Payback is a bitch !"
Seems like they lost significantly more than what we in EDF / ASCN lost when a traitorous director handed the 00Y system (all deathstar POSses and station hangars ... one of the core ASCN Feyth systems) over to BoB. I am soooo glad they get A LOT of their own medicine now .....
As for the Evol theft -that sounds exciting. I always wondered if bob would ever suffer corptheft - looks like they sure do. I am pretty keen on hearing the story behind this one, as I am sure that this is going to be the theft story of the year so far in eve
And you are aware that John McCreedys first sentence, as soon as he was invited to this channel and , "I dont have time for this" and promptly left to the shock of all the ceo's and directors inside?
Thats Alliance leadership for you!
Karma such a bitch, you got love her.
Do the BoB fanbois realize that their bashing of the dead ASCN horse diminishes what they hailed as a magnificent victory over the largest entity in the game ?
It does explain however BoB's failures against Goons and friends, their first real opponent. BoB is nothing special, they have until recently fought strong opponents as part of a massive coalition and weak opponents on their own and hailed all victories as proof of their innate superiority.
But since recent BoB victories are lacking we should of course continue discussing the ASCN war right ?
Ok ... lets change the tune a bit here ...
where do you see AAA in all of this ?
They definitely have the experience and the high SP pilots to make a difference. But not one touches them and they (except for some fun raiding) dont seem to touch the others. Their MC roadshow was short lived.
With a war that involves so many entities, how do they keep out of it the way they do at the moment ?
About traitors wanting to get even with CEO's they despise .... I think there are other ways to make your CEO bleed without hurting ALL your other corp members, whom you have laughed with, bled with and fought with for the past months/years.
anyone know why "the vince" stepped in and posted on the first page that he "had nothing to do with it"?
Lmao you know nothing, you are just spewing shit......as usual
The channel was started prior to the war.
John never did that. He was always in the channel and used it often.
The channel was setup by High Command, not by a random ASCN member.
Seriously, EVE rumormills are like.....broken or something.
And McCreedy did say that upon being invited to the channel for the first time.
Kugutsumen, is it possible to get "Misinformationist" added to eve7003/eve3007/urfunny/dori5's name? It would fit well
That would be funny if you and I didn't have that under our names too
Ahh, my apologies then, wrong channel. I wasn't in that as I wasn't a director or CEO.
But at any rate, the main reason ASCN went to the shitter has 0 to do with the lack of a CEO+Director channel. We didn't die because we didn't have 1 more place to spam each other about random crap.
We died because there was no last stand declared. (Some say 5p, but in reality this was the worst of the stations to save geographically and strategically)
We died because Cyvok left the game for a month and a half to deal with his new house and left the most psychotic leader of the alliance in charge.
We died because when things got tough, Virt wasn't a strong enough leader.
We died because BoB beat us on the battlefield.
We died because half of our capital fleet was harassing Xelas (wtf??) and the other half wasn't showing up for defense ops.
We died because LV and -V- were half-assed friends who did shit-all to help us.
We died because of alot of reasons. Don't over-glorify a channel as being the reason we died.
But what you said is mostly true. However what you said about LV/V is not. LV/V did help a lot - a hell of a lot - without them, ASCN would never have been in TPAR at all. It was the fact that ASCN started doing deathstar POS's without guns and started full scale seiging systems like TCAG which had no staitions and thus no real value also played a part in LV/V giving up on ASCN. Think about it - You help ASCN seige a station by pos spamming every moon. ASCN screw this up by either having no guns, or having guns with no ammo. Then rather than refocusing their strengths in the station system, they start pos spamming a system next door which has no station, and hence absolutly 0 value. Do you think someone like LV and V are going to help ASCN further then?
In short there are hundreds of things which added upto to knock over the house of cards.
Even today, people still have the beleif that it is easier to build than to destroy. Anyone can eventually mine themselves a outpost or rat enough to buy a pos. But that hardest thing ASCN faced was to keep people motivated during a invasion - something that other alliances are good at. For example, evn though some of the northern alliances are defeated, not all of them have disbanded and will no doubt return stronger having learned their lessons.
ASCN would never have been in TPAR at all. It was the fact that ASCN started doing deathstar POS's without guns
Keep in mind :
The transports did not make it, mostly because of bad timing. Its NOT that there were no guns planned for the deathstar POSses.
ASCN lack of experience in combat logistics was what saved BoB from embarrassment on that day.
In short there are hundreds of things which added up
I can agree with that.
Of these "hundreds of things" only about a dozen had to do with BoB.
I was in TPAR, where were all the LV you are clamming were there?
Any other X ASCN pilots ever remember seeing LV helping out?
More Bob troll bull eve7003.
Never seen one in TPAR, TCAG, GQ2, K-9, 00Y, 0-O, AZN, VNG, RIT , C9N etc.
However, I understand they had their hands full against the Russians. Clearly not to the point that we did not have to fight off Russian gangs daily trying to cut off the ASCN complex income to fuel the war effort.
Yep. LV pulling out had sod all to do with them being disgusted with ASCN and had everything to do with the goons suddenly appearing in a neghbouring region. Their attacks prevented LV from helping out ASCN, to the point that at the time I thought that the Goons and Bob were secret allies in this.
Whether LV would have come anyway I really dont know at this point, but the possibility was cut off.
Of course BOB will never admit that they had any help in the war from outside people, even inadvertantly. And especially not from the goons.
How quickly people forget their freinds.
After TPAR - LV and co went back home to deal with their own issues, given the utter joke ASCN made of a messed up POS spam.
As main fleet PvP pilots aka grunts. As gang/squadron/wing/fleet commanders. As covops pilots. As logistical support. As members of the stealth bomber wing.
We remember well who flew and fought alongside us.
Your propaganda is weak, young padawan.
Its the same pattern. When shrikes titan was blown all you heard from bob was how It was the red alliance that did it. When bob suffers a reverse its always becasue of another power and ABSALUTLY NOTHING to do with their current target. Its against their interests to proclaim any competence on the part of their opponents
Bob self proclaimed myth "all you have to do to earn our respect is bring it." Bob reality, fight us and actually hurt us and we will lie about you, taunt you, and insult you and your children forever. And that will serve as a warning to the next person
Now I wonder where they get that "never see anything good in your enemy" line from, does it not sound like one of the rules of a certain well known fascist dictator who as coincidence has it, is well known for his propaganda.
Note: This is a Godwin's Law safe thead, nothing to see here, move along.