I am looking at getting a concealed carry permit and buying a pistol. Any suggestions on what I should get? Rifle suggestions are welcome as well. You never know when those thugs robbing your house are wearing body armor.
Guns n'such
I am looking at getting a concealed carry permit and buying a pistol. Any suggestions on what I should get? Rifle suggestions are welcome as well. You never know when those thugs robbing your house are wearing body armor.
If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
Fear the KKM
Would a gun help with your stuttering?
This is 100% ripped from EHOW.comOriginally Posted by Grim
I found it to be informative for my first weapon purchase. Take it for what it is and hopefully it helps you make the correct choice
HAHAHAHA, dude that's like asking a pedophile if he wants to see pictures of your kids. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
But seriously. Be advised that there's no such thing as "one gun". Sure, you'd like to tell yourself that -- I even maintained only having only one gun for about a year -- but when the floodgates open and you finally decide to get that second, it leads to a third, and then a tenth, and the next thing you know you have a gun safe packed to the gills.
Recommendations, sure but first I need to have some idea as to what you'd like to use it for as all things in the firearms world were not created equal. My presumption is a little target practice to get up to snuff, then keep it around the house for home defense, with occasional trips to the range to keep your shooting skills proficient, and maybe do some plinking with cans and bottles somewhere. If you'd like to carry concealed, it ads another dimension to the mix and the two are usually kind of self exclusive; good home defense weapons aren't always good carry weapons, and visa versa.
If you're looking purely for home defense, the whole home defense, and nothing but the home defense... then forget a handgun, get yourself a good pump-action shotgun. For the most part, Americans still rule the roost when it comes to the heavy artillery -- a Mossberg 500 and Remington 870 are popular choices, and will set you back about $350-$400. You can mount small flashlights on them for exploring a darkened house, they're painfully simple to use, and it's a shotgun so all you have to do it point it in the general direction of the intruder and it'll take care of business. If you've got a couple more bucks to throw into it, Benelli is an Italian firearms maker, and is kind of the Ferrari of shotguns. Remember the old school Mafia assassinations with sawed off double barrel shotguns? Yeah, that's how Benelli got their start. I picked up a Mossberg 590 used for $300, and a Benelli Supernova new for $525. They are both 100,000% reliable and the Mossberg lives [IN A SECRET PLACE IN MY HOUSE].
But since you really can't go recreational shooting with a home defense shotgun -- well I suppose you could but at $0.80 a shell it gets kind of expensive. Enter the defense caliber handgun, which can also double duty as a fun day at the range killing paper targets and pop cans alike. A general consensus in the gun world is .380 (semiautomatic) or .38 (revolver) is the smallest you'd want to go for personal defense. Not to suggest smaller calibers can't be lethal but contrary to what Michael Bay shows us in the movies, bad guys don't fall down dead with just one shot. More often than not continue to function (and attack) for several minutes after being shot, succumbing only to blood loss. So with the old car adage, "There's no replacement for displacement," the larger caliber the better. Don't go out and buy a gold plated .50 Desert Eagle -- those things are a fucking farce -- but .40 or .45 is a good solid choice for a semiautomatic, and .357 or magnum for a revolver. I know, "What about the .44 magnum," right? Inside a home I'd worry about overpenetration. With 50% more muzzle energy than the .357, the .44 goes through the bad guy, and the wall behind him, and the TV behind that, and the dresser, and the wall behind that..... somehow I'm reminded of a scene from Johnny Dangerously. It shoots through schools. Anyway.
For a semiautomatic, especially for a first time handgun owner -- I think Glock is the way to go. This is one of those areas where the Europeans have really outclassed us. Glock was my first handgun and was recommended to me by a guy who used to do personal protection for the SecDef. I told him, "Dude I don't know shit about handguns, i want something simple and reliable." He said Glocks are -- if you'll pardon the pun -- absolutely bulletproof. They simply ALWAYs work. They work in the heat, the cold, dry, wet, dirty or clean. Mine cycles virtually ALL ammunition from the bulk grade crap you can buy at Walmart to the best personal defense hollow points. It's not uncommon for people to fire 10,000 rounds through them without cleaning -- not that i would recommend doing so. On that note, disassembly and cleaning can be done by an idiot. They are just rock solid, dependable guns. I'm not saying it's the end-all-be-all greatest gun in the universe, I'm saying it's the end-all-be-all greatest gun in the universe for n00bs.
There are two complaints that people have about Glocks. The first is a myth: you'll see people of the Colt 1911 world say that Glocks will blow up in your hand, and if you do some Google searching, you'll even find a few pictures of ones that have done so. What the pictures don't tell you is that their owners are fucking idiots and tried to use reloaded ammunition; where in the manual specifically states NEVER EVER EVER to fire reloaded ammunition. A 50 round box of cheap .45 target ammo is $19, and a box of 50 hollow points is $35, so it's not like you're getting a second mortgage. So by trying to save seven cents a round by firing reloads, these idiots blew up their $500 handgun and injured themselves in the process. Lesson: stick to factory ammo.
The second complaint about Glocks is they have no external safety. There are bunch of internal safeties to make sure the gun won't fire if dropped, and the trigger is designed to not function unless it's given a good solid intentional pull... but if there's a round chambered and you squeeze the trigger, it's game time. Not having an external safety can be a little intimidating, especially to a first time handgun owner. But as long as you aren't a blithering idiot and follow the four rules of firearm safety, it shouldn't be an issue. I know this because I didn't and put a hole in the wall.
Other great semiautomatics are by Beretta (Italian) and SigSauer (Swiss/German). I have a Beretta 92FS that shoots 9mm that I absolutely love -- it's without a doubt the most accurate and comfortable handgun I own ($460 used). It also has a manual safety, and is available in .40 caliber (called a 96FS I think)... But it's also all metal and weighs about two and a half pounds loaded, so I ain't carrying that bitch concealed without it dragging my pants down. SigSauer make excellent weapons -- except the Sig P250, stay away from that piece of shit -- which are of the highest quality, are available with manual safeties, are used by the Secret Service and a bunch of other high speed guys... and also come with $800-$1200 price tags. Too rich for my blood.
There are other semi-manufacturers -- Smith and Wesson which get mixed reviews, sometimes people get a great one and they love it, sometimes they get a lemon and they hate it; Ruger semi's generally has a poor reputation; and Hi-Point which is a budget-gun. The latter is kind of funny because despite their $180 price tag -- no shit -- they've got a lifetime warranty. They're heavy as hell, ugly as shit, but always go bang. But I dunno, somehow I just feel like I'd be trusting my life to a Geo Metro. CZ is a brand made in the Czech republic with a big fan base, as is the Makarov from mother Russia's . Note I don't own any of these, so that's all heresay.
Then we have revolvers, and with roots stemming back to the wild wild west, Americans once again shine. Smith and Wesson revolvers are pretty much the standard with Ruger being a distant second. Revolvers have the advantage of being overly simple; they can also be fired from anywhere -- One handed, from inside a pocket, from inside a purse, pressed up against a bad guy's body, whatever. They never jam -- just keep squeezing the trigger and they'll keep going bang until they're empty. The downside is you're limited to 5-7 shots, and reloading is cumbersome when compared to a semiautomatic that uses 15+ round magazines. And on that note, again Michael Bay wants us to believe that we can jump out of the window of a moving vehicle doing 70mph over a dirt road, and holding the gun in our off hand shoot a bad guy between the eyes while he's leaning out his car window shooting back at you. In reality, Google search police shootings and you'll see shit like, "Officers fire 39 bullets are the suspect who was hit 4 times."
But here's a beginner gun that I love, and everyone I have shoot it, loves it too. A SigSauer Mosquito. It looks, walks, talks, smells, and tastes just like a full sized SigSauer 9mm handgun, only it shoots .22LR bullets. While not technically built by SigSauer -- only licensed by them -- it's Sig's venture into the inexpensive target shooting handgun arena. By that I mean a 50 round box of cheap ass 9mm target rounds run about $14; a box of high quality 100 .22LR rounds costs $8. Fire 500 rounds at the range (not uncommon) and you're looking at a $70 tab with 9mm vs a $40 tab with .22's. Do that a few times a month and it adds up. Plus with virtually no recoil, it's a great way for novice shooters to learn the mechanics of shooting... establishing a sight picture, squeeze don't pull, and basic handgun safety. Caveat of Sig Mosquitos: much like the "glocks blow up" myth, Mosquitos are known for being picky about the ammuniton they will reliably cycle. The manual states: use CCI Mini-Mags ($8/box 100) the first 500 rounds to break the gun in, before you switch to the cheap crap that's $22 for a box of 500. Ignore that and try to run the cheap shit right out of the box and the Mosquito will undoubtely be problematic. I bought mine for $290 new, and broke it in as directed and have had absolutely zero problems with it.
So having over-answered your question a hundred times over, here's my advice. You're in a gun friendly state, therefore I presume there are gun ranges near you that rent guns. Go down there, bring [YOUR WIFE], hell even bring [YOUR DAUGHTER], and go nuts. Near me there's a place calledFowler Firearms -- they've got around 60 guns available to rent - semiautomatic handguns, revolvers, bolt action rifles, semiautomatic rifles, pump action shotguns, semiautomatic shotguns. You plop down $25 for a one time rental fee for the day, and you can shoot all their guns for the cost of ammo and targets. I'm sure there's something like that near you. You'd be better pressed to spend $100 on rental fees and find a gun that you (and your family) are both physically and psychologically comfortable with, than spend $500 and have a boat anchor that everyone hates.
Totally serious questions follow.
1) Why are you asking for advice on firearms on kugutsumen.com of all places?
2) Why do you feel the need to justify buying a firearm? Would you feel the need to justify your purchase of 60lbs (27.2kg) of bacon in the same manner?
Because he knows at least one tennessean uses kugu. Oh wait that's me.
Grim, I'd probably go find a local gun store and see if they let you rent guns. I know most around here do. That'll give you a chance to test a few out (I'd say try a Glock 17, Glock 21, Walther PPK/PPS and 1-2 others).
First off the question is really, really broad. There are many things that factor in to which firearm you should choose for conceal and carry.
Personally I carry between two different firearms when I conceal and carry. A Glock 19 (my preferred every day carry) or my 1911 ( I rarely carry this. Last time was like oh, six months ago? Pretty much just a range queen).
So answer me the following.
Are you experienced with firearms, if so what is your experience?
What size of pistol fits your hand the best?
What kind of clothing do you normally wear?
Also what kind of pistols have you been looking at?
EDIT: also how big of a guy are you? Would a full size shadow on you or could you get away with it?
As for rifles I have a bunch as well but they are all impractical for home defense. I got a good deal on a benelli so thats behind the door!
Grim you may find this informative!
+rep ;)
Guns are fairly alien to me so this is all pretty interesting.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
how about one of these
Sig-Sauer if you're going handguns.
?"eve's a bad mmo, really bad, it's only saving grace is the people playing it, which i guess doesn't say great things about the people playing other MMOs"
My dad actually has one. The cops love it when he brings it to the firing range (as he lets em take it for a spin).how about one of these
Home defense the most practical weapon in real life is a pump action 12 gauge loaded with 00 buck(not if you're in an apartment or something however, you do not want to clip your intruder yet tear off the side of sleeping Mrs. Stephensons head through the wall). Shotgun is easy to use in the dark/when groggy/etc, and many people unfortunate enough to have been in home defense situations have attested that the sound of a round being chambered is sometimes enough deterrent to end a situation without bloodshed as it causes most intruders to rethink their priorities.
As for handguns, if you have no friends who shoot/own guns, your best bet is to go to a gun store and ask advice from the people there, also there are certain youtube channels that give good nonshit advice. Make sure to go to multiple shops, as some people will be there to help you vs some people just want to make a sale. You need to find something you feel comfortable with while also suiting your needs. A concealed carry handgun may not be the same as a home defense handgun, etc. I know most ranges will let you rent guns so you can get a feel for them.
Depending on how familiar you are with firearms, most good ranges or better outdoor clubs will offer classes for beginners. They're worth attending if you feel your knowledge is lacking, this is not a subject you want to just wing it on.
Also, do not invest in a firearm unless you are willing to put in the time, commitment, and money to practice, maintain, and stay competent with. You're better off with a baseball bat then a handgun if you don't know how to use it properly.
half of her videos are her modeling various holsters and gear in tons of outfits, not saying that's a bad thing...
Every rifter counts friend
Taurus Millennium PT145.
Is it just me or does anyone else think the author was jerking off as he wrote that?
To answer some of your questions:
My gun experience is limited to firing M9s and M16s in basic, and some friends guns in college (M1 (ww2 rifle), Mousin Nagant, Remington 12 gauge, and AK-47).
I want to get a gun or 2 to go shooting at the range and for self defense. One of my friends got carjacked last weekend, and he usually concealed carriers. Unfortunately he wasn't on the day that happened.
I would probably need a fairly small handgun, since I usually wear shorts and a Tshirt and am not a huge guy.
If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
Fear the KKM
This chick is apparently a gypsy survivalist (tho be fair she's given up living in her van to accommodate her survivalist gun nut phase) with a blog.
http://www.faliaphotography.com/
I guess this is what you get when you crossbreed a hippy with Randy Weaver.
It's almost a certainty that your friend wouldn't have found much help if he'd been carrying when he was carjacked. If anything he'd have been tempted to try something dumb against someone who had the drop on him from the word go.
That being said, you can find a number of compacts that will work well. I'm not a fan of big magazines for CC since the chances are if you need 15 rounds, you're probably in too deep anyway. Taurus makes a line of concealable that tend to be pretty affordable without being cheap Saturday night specials. They're defo not shitty Davis Arms stuff.
http://www.taurususa.com/gun-selecto...cfm?series=cc1
Looks like the models have changed a bit since I last looked but they have plenty of options. It looks like the BP145 is the replacement for the PT145.
Oh look it's an internet tough guy.I am looking at getting a concealed carry permit and buying a pistol
From the information provided I would suggest just going to a store where they have rentals and trying various kinds out. However I feel I can give you a general idea and some tips.
You said you are looking for two different firearms but did not really give a price range. So I'm going to try and keep it to mid range price weapons.
- I feel you should look towards a compact. Their smaller size makes them a little easier to conceal and I feel the little extra size over the subcompact makes them easier to handle while firing.
-Don't exclude revolvers from your potential carry weapons. For self defense purposes they offer advantages (IE You can't really knock a revolver out of battery, very reliable, very concealable.) There are many officers here who swear their life upon their J frame Smith and Wesson.
-[spoiler= TROLL BAIT :Caliber Selection] When it comes to caliber there is nothing but arguments. You can google arguments for and against damn near any caliber. You can find research and papers and different expert opinions all day long. You can read all that shit till you are blue in the face from exhaustion. Go with what caliber you are most comfortable with and you can shoot most accurately with. Because you are a new shooter I would recommend something in a 9mm so that you could afford to shoot more and practice more. Obviously for defense load that sucker up with JHP.[/spoiler]
-] They damn near the same firearm. Besides the subtle differences grip frame angle should be considered. (The grip is angled more like a 1911 and the glock is angled like, well a glock). [/spoiler]
Now go to a local store/rang and try some out and make a choice.
Another thing I think you should consider after you get your holster and all the other little trinkets is to take a lesson from a expert on technique of pistol shooting (or at least a refresher on the stuff you learned from basic). As you are aware pistols are very technique dependent so the little things can and will make a big difference.
As for a fun gun you have a lot of options. I like stuff that goes bang and is loud. You could get a hand assembled AR from a gunsmith for like 650 or just get a cheap AK variant (make sure you inspect it first for things, such as ability to take the double stack magazine, the firing pin is not stuck forward and functioning properly). Or hell you could get a cheap shot gun and throw on a extended magazine AND have a nice gun to sit behind the door.
As for your friend getting car jacked I know numerous people who buy a extra holster and mount it under their dash or on the side of their center counsel (near the cup holders). But every situation is different so there is no way to say "Him having a weapon would have prevented this crime"
So I hope you enjoyed reading that wall of text. But I'm board as hell and this keyboard is sitting in front of me so why not.
Pictures of the guns you own would be interesting if that's okay.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Troll bait or not, that's a pretty important section. Carry a .25 if you feel most comfy with it simply because the one you carry is superior to the one you left in the case because it was too heavy, kicks too hard, etc. I prefer .45 (probably because it was the pistol I carried in the Navy) and the P-89 I bought on getting out largely sat collecting dust for years. I just didn't like it.-
get a luger
and a spike-helmet
Sure. These are just a few I own. The others I can't keep at my apartment because I just don't have room.
[spoiler= My Glock for conceal and carry ]Don't know how many rounds it has had through it being that I purchased it used, only had about 3 failure to feeds ( shitty ammo) in my life of the pistol. [/spoiler]
[spoiler= My Kimber Tactical Entry, mainly used for my part time job and range pinking]
Has well over 5000 rounds (I stopped keeping track) with zero failure to feed or failure to fires. Accuracy also on par with my Colt Gold Cup.[/spoiler]
[Spoiler= Glock with the 1911][/Spoiler]
[spoiler= My 12 gauge, used for trap/skeet skeet skeet shooting.][/spoiler]
[spoiler= My AR, for pleasure!]
I tried to do a chamber shot for ya
I also tried but failed to get a nice shot of the sight. And yes I had to get a killstreak to unlock the Eotech Holographic sight.
[/spoiler]
If I pick up the other ones this weekend to shoot Ill post more, but I think it might be IDPA weekend so I might have to shoot that. Meh or Ill get drunk the night before and try and rail a bar skank. Either way its gonna be a good weekend.
Question for gun owners: When was the last time you used a firearm for 'home defence'?
"It pains me to say it but you are a good poster." - Vonq
I would bet the percentage who actually have is pretty damn small. I'd also wager the amount of firearms owners on this board number in the single digits.
EDIT: [spoiler=I see what you did their] Attachment 1730[/spoiler]
How often does someone who takes a CPR class actually perform CPR?
Good read, will read again.
Biggest reason I want a concealed weapons permit is for when I go out into the wilderness and camping. Mountain lions, bears, strange assholes coming up to your camp at night and mexican gangs growing marijuana in national/state park land are all good reasons to go into the wilderness with a sidearm.
Of course the need to actually use the weapon is very small. However, like Lysander said, it makes you feel safer.
Notwithstanding, one is a first aid skill set and the other is a lethal weapon... but owning a pistol/hand gun for the purposes of 'home defence' is unnecessary against an unlikely risk. The likelihood of you needing to use the tool to defend yourself is so low.
I don't know, I really can't have this debate. I don't own a gun, I will never own a gun and I have no need to have a gun. I live in an urban centre and I dont hunt so I have no need for a gun.
I just don't get gun ownership.
"It pains me to say it but you are a good poster." - Vonq
I thought citizen of Canadia are not allowed to have pistols? Also, don't you guys have to get a permit to get a rifle?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_pol...on_of_firearms
As a private citizen, I think you can own a pistol but its very regulated. Canada is full of guns. We have more per capita than the US. But most are rifles/shotguns for hunting purposes. I have a buddy who owns three rifles for hunting deer. But its not like you can pull them out and use them to defend your home. Ammo has to be in a separate locked container than the rifle.
"It pains me to say it but you are a good poster." - Vonq
According to wiki USA has for more gun owners to capita than Canada (at least in 2007 with guns per 100 residents at about 89 in USA and 30 in Canada. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._gun_ownership). As for the odds of using it being low, I guess its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
Also I find guns fun.
I dont own a gun and probably never will. I have a few friends that have rifles though, most have a shotgun or two(100k rifles in Iceland). Handguns are almost unheard of, very strict regulation if you want one.
I have tried shooting some hand guns under supervision, 22cal, 9mm glock, 44 magnum. The 44 was funny as hell to shoot. The fucking power it has makes it very hard to aim. I would go with 22cal I guess if I lived in the US.
ROFL, we linked the same link in real time
Oh wikipedia, ending debates since 2001.
Yemen is number 3. I'm surprised the uprising going on there hasn't become more out-of-control.
"It pains me to say it but you are a good poster." - Vonq
Its good source for raw info. What peeps do with the guns is however a whole different story.
Maybe the government has all the guns. (EDIT I meant that to be a joke not a political statement lol)
I generally find wiki a good starting point to find info, or their cited sources below the article. Or I try and find peer review journals with info.
Always a good thing to do.
Actually, thats one of the biggest problems the far right has. They are terrible at fact checking :P
I don't have any guns at my place, but I do have various throwing knives (they're fun) and my roommates have nunchucks as a joke for some reason. Nunchucks, by the way, are illegal weapons to possess. I guess they're good self-defense weapons because if you bust them out the intruder/assaulter will be too overcome with laughter to notice he's about to get hit with nunchucks. Unless you end up hitting yourself (highly likely!) at which point he'll just be doubled over with laughter and you can take his weapon.
If I got a weapon more advanced than the 16th century, I'd probably get a flamethrower (which are legal in my state) although I'd have to drive a ways before I could use it. Handguns are cool and all, but statistically you're just as likely to escape uninjured by co-operating with an assailant as you are if you're packing. There are also tons of stories of people who completely forget they have weapons once someone else's gun is pointed at them.
I guess a taser or something would be nice too, if only for the crazy amount of stalkers I manage to get (4 over the course of my life so far!) and you need a concealed carry license for that.
?"eve's a bad mmo, really bad, it's only saving grace is the people playing it, which i guess doesn't say great things about the people playing other MMOs"
I really need to see a pic of you one of these days Vinata. You must have something to ya to attract this attention.
When I walk in a room, people get worried. 200 pounds, 6 foot, bald and looking like bad news will do that. Even when I go to the bank the tellers get that worried look and the security guard gives me a look. 15 years of substance use and having a few scars on my face does make me look like a criminal.
Are you actually TechnoViking?
+rep ;)
Oh also grenade launchers are legal in Texas
?"eve's a bad mmo, really bad, it's only saving grace is the people playing it, which i guess doesn't say great things about the people playing other MMOs"
I was watching some historical airsoft videos yesterday, that looks fun. Australians mainly do medieval reinacting and shoot paintballs. The more modern groups just do uniform porn.
I used to hang out with some powder monkies and that was a lot of fun, but I can see why that kind of hobby gives the police the jitters.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
No, not buffed like him. I am actually small here compared to most, so I use my wit more than anything to come on top.
Gonna quote Barry to keep this thread on track.
Doubles as the worlds most lethal paddle. Also I'm afraid of Russians now.
Editing for content: I can't give a proper opinion on this as I haven't had much dealings with guns but this video, in my opinion, qualifies for overkill.
Wow that's a great show. Fuck those zombies.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Seconding Barry's recommendation of a Glock 19.
Also, reddit has a fairly populated gun subreddit that would be able to address this question in a slightly more informed manner.
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